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Logic X / VEPro6 / Multiport legato issue
Last post Thu, May 03 2018 by Dewdman42, 12 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2017 14:15
by Groctave
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2013, Posts 44

Hello,

 

I’m in the middle of a VEPro6 template using the Multiport Template for Logic Pro X. The routing works very well, I can play any instrument in Logic, every track sounds, etc. (I’ve been using Logic/VEPro for a few years now). The ONLY issue occurs with unisson legatos.

 

Let’s see how I did it :

 

Master MacBook Pro :

- an Instrument track with VEPro6 (hidden in the picture attached)

- MIDI tracks routed to the Instrument track using the VSL Multiport Template in the Environment

 

Slave PC, in VE Pro 6 :

- 1st Kontakt plugin with MIDI Port > 1 VE PRO Plugin MIDI In 1 (default name) and MIDI Channel > All

- 2nd Kontakt plugin with MIDI Port > 1 VE PRO Plugin MIDI In 2 and MIDI Channel > All

 

In each Kontakt, I load multiple patches with increasing MIDI Channel numbers. Let’s say in the 1st Kontakt :

- Violin1 legato > Midi Ch. : Angel 1

- Vln1 staccato > Midi Ch. : Angel 2

- Vln1 pizz > Midi Ch. : Angel 3

- etc.

And in the same in the 2nd Kontakt with Violin2 legato, stacc, pizz, etc.

 

As I said, every patch works when I play it in Logic. The problem occurs when playing a unisson (with the legato patch) with all the violins and the 1st start an new note (a legato note) while the 2nd stay on the same note : the 2nd violins suddenly stop playing.

 

Given that all the patches are routed via a single Instrument in Logic, it seems that the 2nd violins also receive the new-legato-note information, leading to a stop-note.

 

So, my questions are :

- What did I do wrong ? I'm sure, it's so easy I could find it 

- Instead of having a Multi-Instrument per section (i.e. Violins 1, Violins 2, Violas, etc.) in Logic’s Environment, I could have one per articulation (legato, long notes, short, etc.) to avoid having legatos in the same MIDI Channels of the same Instrument track but with different MIDI Ports. But, isn’t there a solution to have one per section ? Because I remember youtube video where people did this (but it was in Cubase) and I never heard about this issue.

 

Best regards,

 

Clément

 

 

PS :

- it already occurred with older versions of Logic X and VEPro5, I just didn’t take time to post a thread

- I used Kontakt in this example but it behaves the same with VI Pro 2 (I assume it wouldn’t occur with polyphonic legato but it’s not the point)

- I know that MIDI Channels start at 2 in the Logic picture I attached, but I did it the same in VEPro6. It was just to try something. Of course, it doesn’t work either starting at 1 

Groctave attached the following image(s):
Logic-VEPro6_issue.png (150kb) downloaded 19 time(s).

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MacBook Pro 10.11.5 / Logic Pro X 10.3.0
VE Pro 6 / VI Pro 2 / VSuite
Synchron Strings I / Synchron Percussion I / SE Woodwinds I / Harp I / Jazz Drums / Upright Bass / Epic Orchestra
Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2017 15:19
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11482

Hi Groctave, 

That's indeed a glitch in Logic's environment, thanks for your posting.  

As soon as you trigger the same note on the same MIDI Channel on two different ports, they interrupt each other. 
Did you try to switch the MIDI Channels for your second instance yet?

E.g.:
MIDI Channel 1: pizz
MIDI Channel 2: stac
MIDI Channel 3: leg

I don't know any other way around this, and we're all really hoping for AUv3 Multiport to be available in the near future. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Feb 13 2017 15:33
by Groctave
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2013, Posts 44

Thanks for your quick reply Paul !

 

A Logic glitch ! That's what I was starting to think. Great you pointed it out.

Yes, the "switching solution" was the other idea I had in mind to keep a Kontakt/VIPro per section.

 

Best,

Clément

MacBook Pro 10.11.5 / Logic Pro X 10.3.0
VE Pro 6 / VI Pro 2 / VSuite
Synchron Strings I / Synchron Percussion I / SE Woodwinds I / Harp I / Jazz Drums / Upright Bass / Epic Orchestra
Posted on Sat, Mar 04 2017 04:23
by oldskool
Joined on Sat, Sep 08 2012, Posts 10

I have solved this issue on my system by replacing the cc99 transformers in the 2015 Multiport Layer with the old encrypted macros from the 2013 Multiport Layer.

In the newer Multiport Layer note-on commands are sent to only the correct port, but note-off commands are echoed to the same MIDI channel on all ports.   Thus it seems like the template is working, but upon closer inspection one notices the cut off notes.

Substituting the old macros fixes this across all ports.  This fix is really good news for me, because I didn't want to have to wait until the AU3 implementation to have a fully operational template.

Posted on Sat, Mar 04 2017 06:47
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11482

Hi, 

That's good news indeed. Do you want to send me your new song, so I can take a look?

We're hoping that we can support AUv3 in the next months. Yay!

Thanks,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Mar 04 2017 08:49
by Groctave
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2013, Posts 44

Wonderful !

 

But where can I find the 2013 version ? Or how can I fix it on the 2015 ?

MacBook Pro 10.11.5 / Logic Pro X 10.3.0
VE Pro 6 / VI Pro 2 / VSuite
Synchron Strings I / Synchron Percussion I / SE Woodwinds I / Harp I / Jazz Drums / Upright Bass / Epic Orchestra
Posted on Sat, Mar 04 2017 21:07
by oldskool
Joined on Sat, Sep 08 2012, Posts 10

ok, I am going to attempt to attach a Logic project containing very little aside from my VE Pro layer.   There are VE Pro's for VSL, Kontakt and GIGA in this project, although the fix is only applied to the VSL instance as you can see.

You can simply import the "VEPro Multiport" layer into your template and copy the encrypted macros over to your project.

File Attachment(s):
VEProU0020MultiportU0020LayerU0020example.logicx.zip (304kb) downloaded 11 time(s).

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Posted on Sun, Mar 05 2017 03:30
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 218

I think something similar is happening to me.

I have some sustain info on a celeste part that is crossing over to a clarinet in a different port forcing the note to hang.  When I click on a different part of the session with no midi data from any channel, the note stops.  When I restart from the top it plays correctly except for when I stop the playback in the middle of the phrase... then the note hangs.

"I have solved this issue on my system by replacing the cc99 transformers in the 2015 Multiport Layer with the old encrypted macros from the 2013 Multiport Layer."

Is this the solution?  I'm having trouble translating 

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.4.7. Mojave & Windows 10.
Posted on Sun, Mar 05 2017 04:14
by Ashermusic
Joined on Fri, Jan 02 2009, Posts 540

As a Logic Certified Trainer and a guy who helps some fairly famous musicians build Logic/VE Pro templates, I sinply cannot recommend the Multiport layer. It is building a foundation on quicksand in my  view.

Composer, Logic Pro Certified Trainer, author of "Going Pro With Logic Pro 9" & "Scoring WIth Logic Pro"
www.jayasher.com

3.4 i7 Quad Core iMac, 32 GB RAM.,
OS X 10.14.5
Posted on Mon, Mar 06 2017 13:22
by Groctave
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2013, Posts 44

Originally Posted by: oldskool Go to Quoted Post

ok, I am going to attempt to attach a Logic project containing very little aside from my VE Pro layer.   There are VE Pro's for VSL, Kontakt and GIGA in this project, although the fix is only applied to the VSL instance as you can see.

You can simply import the "VEPro Multiport" layer into your template and copy the encrypted macros over to your project.

Thanks a lot !
But the macros are "protected" and I can't unprotect/unpack them. I would like to see what' going on inside ;) Is it made like in Norbert Drees' "Advanced Multiport Environment" you can find on orchestraltemplates.com ? If yes, why aren't they two NRPN ? (I understand the 99 fix to assign a MIDI Channel but what is the 98 > 100 fix ?)

Originally Posted by: Ashermusic Go to Quoted Post

As a Logic Certified Trainer and a guy who helps some fairly famous musicians build Logic/VE Pro templates, I sinply cannot recommend the Multiport layer. It is building a foundation on quicksand in my  view.

Yes, I've read that singles instances with 16 MIDI channels show better performance. But I don't want (don't have time) to recreate my VEP6 server. Moreover, I plan on leaving Logic-Mac-master/PC-slave for good and go to PCs with Cubase quite soon.

MacBook Pro 10.11.5 / Logic Pro X 10.3.0
VE Pro 6 / VI Pro 2 / VSuite
Synchron Strings I / Synchron Percussion I / SE Woodwinds I / Harp I / Jazz Drums / Upright Bass / Epic Orchestra
Posted on Thu, May 03 2018 05:02
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 378

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post
Hi Groctave, That's indeed a glitch in Logic's environment, thanks for your posting. As soon as you trigger the same note on the same MIDI Channel on two different ports, they interrupt each other.Did you try to switch the MIDI Channels for your second instance yet? E.g.: MIDI Channel 1: pizzMIDI Channel 2: stacMIDI Channel 3: leg I don't know any other way around this, and we're all really hoping for AUv3 Multiport to be available in the near future. Best,Paul

My understanding is that the logic environment does not properly transform noteoff events with inserted CC99.  It also creates duplicate NoteOff Messages, all of which confuses the VEP plugin.

I have a work around that seems to be working.  Find it here: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48669-VEP-Multi-Port-bug-in-Logic#post271416

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, May 03 2018 05:44
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 378

But hopefully VSL will get the AU plugin updated to AU3 soon so we can stop all this shenanegans

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
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