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new VSL Pieces
Last post Sun, Dec 22 2019 by mw design, 17 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Sep 26 2019 17:15
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258

Hi, I have made new Youtube Channel and will upload some new VSL Pieces in the Future (new machine arrives next Month) Now at this Point all of the Pieces are running on a I5, 10GB Ram. Classic VI Instruments and MIRx

Filmmusic with VSL 

Bach - BWV Badinerie 1067

Posted on Tue, Oct 01 2019 19:51
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1727

Hello mw design
I'm just referring to Bach's Badiniere. When I started with VSL 17 years ago, such brook pieces were of course a must. They were good for practicing because one could compare the result with originals. The small community gave each other tips on how to get even closer to the originals...
I advise you to do the same. The mix seems to be somehow in a pot and a bit far away. Obviously you used MIRx and I see the value set to 75% WET. If you want a big distance I recommend you to choose a bigger room (Wiener Konzerthaus). The important thing is to bring down the 75% WET to about 35%. Then the "pot" impression will be lost automatically. You will notice the somewhat strange sound (e.g. strings) by comparing your audio file it with original recordings (Youtube).

A second thing is that with samples not all tones are equally loud when played with the same velocity. Staccati, for example, sound louder with 70 (midi velocity) as legato notes. In your case, some notes almost disappear. Already with the first notes.... daaa da da daaa da da daaa da da daaa ... at least one short note is quite quieter...  that means that you probably have to adjust each tone individually with the preceding and the following one...
Of course only if you really want to do that.

So far a great work with some potential.
Don't know how long it took you. I used to calculate 3 days of work for 3 minutes of music 15 years ago...

Further much fun and success.
Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, Oct 02 2019 02:20
by Itchy
Joined on Sat, Feb 18 2017, Posts 30
Thanks for your input, Beat! As a player of recorder/ blockflöte ensemble music, we tend to play our notes shorter than rehearsed when performing in large-sounding spaces ...in order to reduce muddiness & allow the audience to hear articulations as best as possible in the reverberant venue. There’s also the concept of making a musical gesture or articulation *more obvious* and intentional, in some circumstances, rather than subtle. Do you find this holds generally true for “cutting through” a mix in the VSL/ MIR virtual world?
~Christopher
Posted on Wed, Oct 02 2019 22:18
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1727

Hi Itchy

Your answer tells me I obviously didn't clearly say what I wanted. So again in a short way.

-----------------------------------------
A) Your mix sounds pretty discolored because you took too much WET with MIRx (75%). That's why you should compare own mixes with real concert sound every now and then. I did that for you:

Badiniere: Original1-Itchy- Original2-Ichty (mp3) 

With MIRx it is best to set values of 20-40%. If you want to have more tail you can do this with an additional Algo-Reverb. So the discolorations in the sound are no problem.

----------------------------------------

B) Some of your notes of the flute are too quiet, so you can hardly hear them, they disappear in the orchestral sound. Probably it has to do with the fact that not all articulations sound equally loud. I played your music at about 70% speed.

Badiniere slow (mp3) For example the sixth note. Daa  da  da  daa  da  da  daa....

----------------------------------------

C) Since you are obviously a recorder player, I dug out my old Badiniere again (2006) and remixed a short section with a recorder. By the way of course without MIRx, to show again that it also works without MIR... ;-)

Badiniere Kaufmann (Excerpt, mp3)  Have fun!

---------------------------------------

Originally Posted by: Itchy Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for your input, Beat! .... There’s also the concept of making a musical gesture or articulation *more obvious* and intentional, in some circumstances, rather than subtle. Do you find this holds generally true for “cutting through” a mix in the VSL/ MIR virtual world?

Samples are what they are: Samples. If you want to make "music" with them, you have to play them like you do with another instrument. For this you have the different articulations, dynamics and tempo at your disposal (like in the real world). The difference with samples lies mainly in the restriction of articulations, especially with strings and wind instruments.

If you make a "real" mix, you have even more possibilities to bring everything to life with mixing automation (effects, volume, panning, etc.).  Unfortunately, a bad mix can also destroy all efforts before.

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Thu, Oct 03 2019 11:24
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258

Thanks Beat for your Comment,

I mix in Mono and there I also decide how much Reverb a Sound gets. If every Sound is stacked on each other, you can analyze precisely which Frequencies are clashing or which Instrument is too prominent in Realtion to another Instrument. With a Amount of 35% it would be too dry. I use different Settings for different Instruments. In this Case the Flute was clashing with some of the Strings Notes and the Strings are closer than the Flute. 

The idea that Staccato Notes are louder is good and has to do with the Playing Technique. thats a Good One

Cheers Markus

Posted on Thu, Oct 03 2019 14:07
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1727

Ups and sorry

Dear mw design, dear Itchy

I'm sorry, I mistook the answer. Unfortunately I assumed the answer from Itchy belonged to my design...
I've obviously become an older man who doesn't quite understand the world anymore.
Nevertheless, everyone can perhaps take something out of my answers above...

All the best and good luck in making music with samples.
Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sat, Nov 16 2019 20:00
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258
Posted on Sun, Nov 17 2019 12:45
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258
Posted on Thu, Dec 05 2019 20:38
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258

This is a dreamy Piece. Dimension Strings, aswell as Orchestral, Chamber and Appassionate Strings are used in a MIRx Setup

Filmmusic in progress with VSL Instruments

Posted on Sat, Dec 07 2019 07:05
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1576
I'm just going to comment on the "film music"

The composition is magical and sounds almost Elfmannesque or something you might hear in a Tim Burton movie.

Was this EQ'ed? Because the lows and mid lows get punchy at times. It may benefit from some multiband compression. Or it could be my listening environment which is my car.

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sat, Dec 07 2019 13:38
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258

Thanks jasensmith, with the new version on filmmusic i changed the strategy. I make every Sound with full Expression and Velocity Crossfade and then I decide about Volume Levels and make EQ Changes, after that I turn down the Expression and Velocity Crossfade and have then a Situation where the instruments cant get too big in their Range.

The Punchiness yes Im aware of it, it has to do because of the low Cello playing a melody, but this melody is important for the whole Sound. I work on it

cheers

Posted on Sat, Dec 07 2019 15:53
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258

its still a rumbling there, but it should be sound better now.

Filmmusic Update

Posted on Mon, Dec 09 2019 18:13
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258

Now the Sound will more clean in next Updates, I made a classic Orchestral Hit and use this as a Reference Point. If all of Instruments play a short Note with maximum expression and participate in a natural Orchestral Hit with Timpani  just below zero, then it should sound very clean (when all of the instruments Levels are setup correctly)  and nice when the Velocity X Fade and Expression is going down. The Sound will also be louder. Quiet Parts at - 20 dB, basic Play at -12dB and crescendo up to - 1dB

Posted on Sat, Dec 14 2019 15:43
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258

Update - some instruments have Compression, not all. Now i have Room for rising Crescendo, Expression Levels are not at max settings.

Filmmusic Update 5

Posted on Sun, Dec 15 2019 17:23
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258
Posted on Fri, Dec 20 2019 23:34
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258
Posted on Sun, Dec 22 2019 07:32
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Posts 258

I now upgraded Dimension Strings because of the great Holiday Sale and they are still mind blowing. I wished to complete the Humperdinck Opera, but its challenging to make clean MIRx Mix, lots of Woodwinds and Brass playing in the critical Mid Area, maybe I wait to get MIR Pro.

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