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RAM and Dimension Strings?
Last post Sun, Oct 14 2012 by Mike B Studios, 36 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Sep 24 2012 20:38
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1727

...So we have 8 Violins with 4 Layers with the "perf-legato-samples". Has anybody measured the need of RAM for just these legatos?

What about the RAM-difference bewteen the legato of the solo strings violin and those 8 violins of the dimension strings: x8 and x 2 for the 4 layers instead of two?

Best

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Mon, Sep 24 2012 20:56
by jhstrong
Joined on Tue, Aug 16 2011, Las Vegas, NV, USA, Posts 99
The manuals can give you this information. Check your User Area>Instrument Collections>Strings. All the manuals should be there for you to download. Each patch tells you how many samples and how much RAM each patch takes up. I hope this helps!
Posted on Mon, Sep 24 2012 23:04
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

I think Beat wants to know how RAM usage pans out in real world application, he can't get that information from the manual.

Posted on Mon, Sep 24 2012 23:07
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1727

Thanks for the hint, Jhstrong!

OK then. I tell you what I've seen in the manuals:

Solo Violin, 2 Layers

Perf Legato  1143 Samples, 71 MB

Perf Trill   3383 Samples, 211 MB

Dimension Violins, P1 (one player), 4 Layers

Perf Legato  1448 Samples, 45 MB ( = 360MB for all 8?)

Perf Trill    3168 Samples, 99MB (=792MB for all 8?)

So we have to take into account that we will need some RAM for the whole orchestra later on...

Best

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Tue, Sep 25 2012 00:28
by jhstrong
Joined on Tue, Aug 16 2011, Las Vegas, NV, USA, Posts 99
Yeah, the system requirements say you need at least 4GB of RAM to run Dim-Strings, but they recommend 8 GB of RAM. Good thing I'm getting a new PC soon!

Posted on Tue, Sep 25 2012 01:40
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1727
jhstrong wrote:
Yeah, the system requirements say you need at least 4GB of RAM to run Dim-Strings, but they recommend 8 GB of RAM. Good thing I'm getting a new PC soon!

Attention!

That was the reason for asking my question "RAM and Dimension Strings?".

You will need RAM for Windows, for your DAW, for every Audiofile, for IRs of Convolution Reverbs or of MIR, for... 

If you are going to load the "perf trills" (only) for the whole divisi-orchestra 4GBits of RAM are away - just for these trills.

So 8GB is nothing. Buy > 16GB. Take this as a good advice from an old hand Wink

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Tue, Sep 25 2012 13:21
by meldavid
Joined on Fri, May 25 2012, Posts 2

If you have the VSL samples stored on an SSD, how much RAM could you get away with  for Vienna Instruments 31... I mean Dimension Strings?

Posted on Wed, Sep 26 2012 08:50
by gernot
Joined on Mon, Oct 29 2007, Vienna, Austria, Posts 46

.. yup.. i got 16 gig of ram in my mac pro and turned slightly pale when i checked my ram after loading the 8 violin patch + 4 desks and solo patches (which of cause double and don't count as extra ram).. however, my ve pro, including the teldex mir and the dimension strings consumed 11 gig of my ram ;) and that's just the violins..

i think the times when i would just load the whole preset for comfort is over... at least until i move to 32+ gig of ram and an all ssd system ;)

welll.. thank god violas, cellos and basses will only be released in 2013 ;)

Posted on Wed, Sep 26 2012 15:50
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1727
gernot wrote:
...i think the times when i would just load the whole preset for comfort is over... at least until i move to 32+ gig of ram

Hi Gernot

I was afraid that the low-ram-times have passed away - the reason for my post here.

Thanks for giving us an example and also for confirming my supposition.

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, Sep 26 2012 16:19
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

32 gigs is quickly becoming the new normal.

Soon 96 gigs won't seem so gaudy...

Posted on Fri, Sep 28 2012 10:05
by Sergino Futurino
Joined on Thu, Dec 18 2003, Italy, Posts 652

I don't think we will need 96 gigas because using SSD will become more affordable.

With that i save a lot of samples loading time that woulb be very huge with 96 gigas of RAM! .

www.sergiobrunetti.it
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Posted on Fri, Sep 28 2012 12:20
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

What you've said about SSD's is true. They do save loading time and free up RAM.

Another way to look at it, as SSD's and RAM become more affordable, vendors wIl create ever more taxing software.

As this thread has revealed, Dimension Strings will not allow us to load everything unless we have a great deal of RAM.

SSD's or not 32 gigs is becoming the new norm. 

I'm not suggesting you'll ever need 96 gigs, I am however saying that soon my 96 gigs won't seem so gaudy, after all.

Posted on Sat, Sep 29 2012 19:59
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499

I have 32 GB of RAM currently and I'm going SSD just for DS. While I'm Sad about the cost, I'm Smile about everything else. lol

-Sean

P.S. of course, all this depends on VSL's willingness to hear my plea's and begging for them to have the early bird offer last past October 15th.

Posted on Sat, Sep 29 2012 22:32
by Jack Weaver
Joined on Sat, Mar 27 2004, Tucson, AZ, Posts 391

Regarding RAM & DS, here's what I've found so far. One .viframe with the 8 individual violins loaded with the Large Set L2 Presets each attached to MIR Pro using Mortzartsall v2 = approx. 13.5GB. Please remember that you will need RAM for your operating system and VEP also. 

The Full DS also has 16 more instruments (6 violas, 6 celli and 4 double basses). I wouldn't doubt that perhaps they have a few less articulations in their same Large Set L2 Presets and might use a bit less RAM - plus the fact that they have accordingly less numbers of individual instruments. I would think that it has to be somewhere in the 20GB+ range for all the other 16 individual instruments besides the violins. So we could be looking at easily over 32 GB usage if you want total individual control of the instruments of each section along with the ability to have its total Force Sul capabilities. 

This doesn't take into account using the Desks, Groups or All preset capabilities. Obviously, each of us will have to learn what corners to cut to make it work in our individual situations. 

A couple small SSD's in a RAID configuration might be necessary too. Smaller SSD's are priced more affordably these days. 

RAM is relatively inexpensive - and so is this library. Especially with the introductory pricing. 

Besides, a lot of guys are going to be using this library and customers could be asking you if you can get this lively, detailed sound. 

You could simply use the Desks alone and cut the RAM and throughput requirements in half. Lots of choices to make with DS. Lots of options available. 

Mac Master:
2010 Mac Pro 12-core. 3.46GHz, 64 GB RAM, OSX 10.12.3, Logic Pro X 10.3.1 ,VEP5, SSD system drive, etc.

PC Slave:
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Posted on Sun, Sep 30 2012 08:11
by whlederman
Joined on Mon, Jan 25 2010, Posts 111
Beat Kaufmann wrote:

Thanks for the hint, Jhstrong!

OK then. I tell you what I've seen in the manuals:

Solo Violin, 2 Layers

Perf Legato  1143 Samples, 71 MB

Perf Trill   3383 Samples, 211 MB

Dimension Violins, P1 (one player), 4 Layers

Perf Legato  1448 Samples, 45 MB ( = 360MB for all 8?)

Perf Trill    3168 Samples, 99MB (=792MB for all 8?)

So we have to take into account that we will need some RAM for the whole orchestra later on...

Best

Beat



Hi Beat,

I think thats the path,if we are going to play all the instruments at once alltogether

but I think we can use the memory optimisation to greatly reduce memory usage,and like what you suggest in your tutorial,bouncing to audio will save a lot of RAM,also freezing Instruments

IMO ,If we still want to have the luxury to control a very incredibly real sounding orchestra instruments with the flexibility like DS,that's the price we have to pay

My friend has Hollywood Strings and he face a lot worst situation ,in terms of RAM and flexibility

but I WILL definitely NEED to upgrade to SSD Raid like Angelbird !!


Regards, Willy
Posted on Sun, Sep 30 2012 08:13
by whlederman
Joined on Mon, Jan 25 2010, Posts 111
Hi Beat,

I think thats the path,if we are going to play all the instruments at once alltogether

but I think we can use the memory optimisation to greatly reduce memory usage,and like what you suggest in your tutorial,bouncing to audio will save a lot of RAM,also freezing Instruments

IMO ,If we still want to have the luxury to control a very incredibly real sounding orchestra instruments with the flexibility like DS,that's the price we have to pay

My friend has Hollywood Strings and he face a lot worst situation ,in terms of RAM and flexibility

but I WILL definitely NEED to upgrade to SSD Raid like Angelbird !!


Regards, Willy
Posted on Sun, Sep 30 2012 13:05
by nicowieditz
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2006, GERMANY, Posts 70

If you use Angelbird ssd's for library sample loading, then do not use it in a raid system. Angelbird works better when you use it for library loading as a normal hdd. It also recommended in this way by angelbird. I have 64 GB RAM and load everything  via SSD. I am using Angelbird's SSD-PCIe Cards with Samsung and angelbird SSD's. Everything is loading fast enough and works stable. I recommend 64 GB RAM for using in big orchestral projects. I think about extend the RAM to 128 GB. At the moment 64 GB are more than enough, but I am sure in 1 year, after the 16 GB Ram-reels are available for lower prices, then I will extend the ram to the maximum in my mac pro. I have tested two 16 GB reels to reach 80 GB and it only worked in Mountain lion, but I sent them back because the reels were too expensive.

Dimension violins itself need 8GB RAM to work efficiently. By using MIR PRO you need more than 16GB RAM. I recommend 24 GB. If you use all instruments in one MAC PRO I recommend SSD's for system and libraries and 64GB RAM. It works fine.

Logic X / Mac Pro / 12-core / 96 GB RAM / 6 TB SSD / 12 TB HDD / Mac OSX.XIV
Posted on Sun, Sep 30 2012 14:00
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Posts 499
nicowieditz wrote:
If you use Angelbird ssd's for library sample loading, then do not use it in a raid system. Angelbird works better when you use it for library loading as a normal hdd. It also recommended in this way by angelbird.

There are SSD's with higher sequential read (MB/s) and higher random read (IOPS) than what Angelbird is currently offering. I understand why people will use Angelbird. But as far as performance and RAID options go, there are better options out there IMO. My current sample SSD is faster than Angelbird and I'm planning on getting 2 even faster SSD's to run in RAID for Dimension Strings. I'm not trying to pick on Angelbird or anything like that. I'm just stating all that to ask- why go with their SSD's if RAID isn't worth utilizing?

-Sean

Posted on Sun, Sep 30 2012 18:56
by nicowieditz
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2006, GERMANY, Posts 70
iscorefilm wrote:

why go with their SSD's if RAID isn't worth utilizing?

-Sean

I have 4 slots for HDD's, 1 slot is used for the PCIe Card with the possibility to use 4 more SSD's, so that is enough for me to know. And if Angelbird is recommending me not to use it as Raid if it is used for library loading, it is ok for me. I don't care about the more speed I could have, it is fast enough for me.

But you are right, why not using in Raid-mode? Everyone has to make an own decision.

Nico

Logic X / Mac Pro / 12-core / 96 GB RAM / 6 TB SSD / 12 TB HDD / Mac OSX.XIV
Posted on Sun, Sep 30 2012 20:00
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 972

In RAID, they function as one drive.  As separate drives, they function independantly, and thought not as fast, can do more things at once. 

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