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Additional Plugins to Master with MIR PRO
Last post Tue, Feb 12 2013 by Beat Kaufmann, 11 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Dec 19 2012 17:29
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1062

Hi Dietz and team,

I already have Vienna Suite and MIR PRO.  I was considering the idea of getting a plugin bundle to finish out my mixing and mastering tools.  I was trying to decide between SSL Solid State Logic Duende bundle, or Waves Platinum bundle.

What would you recommend from a true professional level as to which of those will make my mixes and masters sound the most superior (assuming the person using them knew how to use them) :).

Thanks,

Maestro2be 

Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 128GB RAM, AMD 3970X 32-core
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme, Radeon RX 5500 XT
Studio One 5.1.1, Cubase 10.5, Nuendo 10
RME Multiface 2, All NVMe SSD Drives (OS & Samples)
Posted on Thu, Dec 20 2012 14:18
by Holgmeister
Joined on Fri, Feb 13 2004, Gross Zimmern, Posts 148

 Hi,

the Vienna Suite and the beautiful presets from Dietz should get you very far to perfection, when you are in an orchestral context. (and otherwise, too)  

I make also heavy use of Universal Audio. It is my favorite (especially when you are more "old school" oriented).

SSL (again, for my ears) is too clean and Waves Platinum is always last for a certain group of people.

"Superior" is relative - it depends on your music and what you are trying to accomplish. Dietz stressed the rule of thumb:

"If it sounds good to you and your ears, it probably is!"

I would think that if you don't get a good mix with the Vienna Suite for your ears, then you probably don't get the extra mile from the others packages neither.

 cheers

HS

Orchestral Noise and Magick
Symphonic Cube, Piano, Prepared Piano and MIR24
Posted on Thu, Dec 20 2012 14:36
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1062

Thanks for the response HS,

I definitely agree that Vienna Suite is very powerful and it is on every channel of my instruments.  It's my main and I use it on the master bus also.  The problem is, that the whole thing (all orchestral music) seems to lack that "shine" that you hear on the high quality engineered tracks.  The overall size of the stereo image just seems a bit small to my ears compared to industry recordings.  I know Dietz also said that unfortunately there are some plugins that are just much more helpful to give the mix a certain shine quality, hence why you need more than one package to do your job best.  However the specific plugin names were not given and I did not press for them at the time because I found it rude, as this is his earned living.

I guess perhaps I am looking for that final piece for mastering that will give the song that boost in image and shine (not in screaming volume).  But makes it come alive and feel very detailed and large spread without losing the dynamics.  I really wish their was some good training material on this along with what plugs used to get a very nice result.  It takes more time and energy than available for people like myself where this is only a hobby, and perhaps an obsessed dream :).

Maestro2be

Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 128GB RAM, AMD 3970X 32-core
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme, Radeon RX 5500 XT
Studio One 5.1.1, Cubase 10.5, Nuendo 10
RME Multiface 2, All NVMe SSD Drives (OS & Samples)
Posted on Fri, Dec 21 2012 09:30
by Holgmeister
Joined on Fri, Feb 13 2004, Gross Zimmern, Posts 148

 Hi Maestro,

hmm, that "shine" I am also looking for since forever. I would recommend to get the UAD (The SOLO card would sometimes run at 200 USD). You can test-drive all plug ins for a period of time. Try them. You can start with the Neve emulations. But the problem is with mastering plugins: In the beginning, except the presets, you can do more wrong than right. It is an endless process of listening and trying. 

If you get a dongle, you can testdrive Waves as well (as I recall)

I heard also, that SSL is still another good start, not sure about the test drives.

I also looked at mastering classes on a remote level: Yes, they are there, (for example Berklee) , and they will give you the basics. But you need to learn  to listen and work with it, and that is only possible on site. (For example, SAE)

Also, I have very good results with voxengo. They are also used in a lot of top studios. I only retired their Convolution Reverbm because it is not 64bit and it sounds too much like tin. You can testdrive all their products easily.

Like you said: Beginner's fault (like my recordings) ist most often to overdo everything: Too much compression, too much reverb, to much "in your face". To lern the "slowhand", the subtle notions, is really hard.

Orchestral Noise and Magick
Symphonic Cube, Piano, Prepared Piano and MIR24
Posted on Sun, Jan 20 2013 06:18
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2699

Did you read the post of one or two MIR PRO user that removed all the plug-in corrections and just used MIR PRO on it's own ?

He said he was very pleased of the result

Of course you have to set each instrument with it's profile in MIR

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur

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Posted on Sun, Jan 20 2013 11:54
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 If you need a wider stereo image, then go back to MIR and spread the instruments wider on the stage, also maybe move the microphone position back a little, if it's too close to the stage, the stereo image will be smaller.

Posted on Sun, Jan 20 2013 13:50
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7758
andyjh wrote:
[...]  also maybe move the microphone position back a little, if it's too close to the stage, the stereo image will be smaller.

Errr ... actually it should be the other way 'round (the closer the Main Mic, the wider the perceived stereo image). How did you experience the behaviour you've described in your message I've quoted above?

Another good way to widen the stereo image within MIR Pro is to use a Main Microphone setup that uses larger opening-angles between the two capsules and/or a setup that picks up more out-of-phase information (try M/S with cardiod M as an example for the former, a Blumlein setup for the latter).

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jan 21 2013 15:01
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600
Dietz wrote:
andyjh wrote:
[...]  also maybe move the microphone position back a little, if it's too close to the stage, the stereo image will be smaller.

Errr ... actually it should be the other way 'round (the closer the Main Mic, the wider the perceived stereo image). How did you experience the behaviour you've described in your message I've quoted above?

 

 

That was the effect I was getting using a drumkit in BFD within VE Pro,  though I do recall it had been mentioned that drumkits don't really fit into the MIR concept very well (I think that was when someone asked about a profile for Jazz Drums).  Though I guess it depends on the width the instrument is set to, maybe I had the instrument width set wrong.

Posted on Mon, Jan 21 2013 15:46
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7758

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly - but to me it sounds like you're mixing up the stereo width of the source signal (represented by the "Icon" within MIR Pro) and the stereo width perceived by MIR's Main Microphone.

You could have to mono-sources on the far left and the far right side of a stage, while "recording" broad stereo from a Main Mic at the conductor's position (for example). OTOH, you could have (say) Appassionata strings spanning ten meters to the left and the right, while still hearing a pretty narrow signal from the balcony in the back of the hall.

.... hope this sheds some light on the issue. :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Feb 10 2013 18:22
by Stephane Collin
Joined on Sun, Aug 02 2009, Posts 96
Hi all.

I find that MIR PRO is unbeatable when it comes to position instruments on the stereo field. The early reflections are superior to anything I know. I very often use the Miracle enhancements. I often use all the Vienna suite, and nearly always the limiter.
For mastering, I tend to go back to Isotope 5. It is a very clever piece of software and the presets are great. Of course, it is very important to calibrate the monitoring.

Regards.

Stéphane.
Stephane

PC core i7 hexa 64 gb ram
Macbook pro 6 gb ram
Motu 8M
Genelec 1030 A monitors
Adam S3X H monitors
Sennheiser HD 800 headphones
Beyerdynamic DT 880 pro headphones
Many Vienna Instruments
MIR pro
Posted on Tue, Feb 12 2013 18:52
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1740
cgernaey wrote:

...What would you recommend from a true professional level as to which of those will make my mixes and masters sound the most superior (assuming the person using them knew how to use them) :).

Thanks, Maestro2be 

Hello Maestro2be ;-)

Nice to meet you here.

...Even if the panning etc. is well done by MIR the final mixes often can sound a bit muddy or thick. You will notice that as soon as you play the mix through desktop PC speakers or similar products. For such mastering tasks you should have some more and warm EQs and one two Mastering compressors.

Beside Wave-products I can recommend all the effects from here:  http://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/plugins.html

(+ you don't need any dongle)

A nice EQ (with dynamic-possibilities) is also the one of Hofa... http://hofa-plugins.de/pages/start_en/hofa-iq-eq_en.php

All the best

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
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