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Dimension Strings - slow leg and fast port presets please ?
Last post Mon, Apr 01 2013 by Conquer, 40 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Jan 10 2013 17:47
by 9u10m
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 83

Hello everyone,

I think VSL did a fantastic job on the Dimension Violins. What I do miss, though, is the lack of flexibility on the legato and portamento patches.
Playing with the stretch engine works rather well in that regard, especially to create fast portamentos.

This matter has been discussed already, so I was thinking maybe VSL could provide us with tailor-made expanded L1 and L2 presets that would take such tweaks into account, as well as their expression maps counterparts?

Right now DS users need to do this on their own, when they know how to. And they'll need to repeat the process individually for all other sections, unless you guys show just a tiny tad more love... ;)

What do you think?

Best
Posted on Thu, Jan 10 2013 18:15
by garylionelli
Joined on Wed, Jul 09 2003, Los Angeles, Posts 383

I agree. Factory pre-stretched presets would be a welcome addition. I've already tweaked the legato to be longer (slower) and the port to be shorter. Easy to do, but would be good to have them as part of the factory sets too.

Pro Tools Ultimate, Avid MTRX, Mac Pro 3.5 Ghz 6-Core (2014) 64 GB RAM, Mac OS Mojave, Samsung T5 SSDs
Posted on Wed, Jan 16 2013 09:45
by 9u10m
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 83
Only 2 DS customers interested? I'll be damned...
Posted on Mon, Mar 25 2013 14:18
by MacDude
Joined on Thu, Jun 04 2009, UK, Posts 57

Just read this from your link to my post so please count me in ;-)

Although i wouldn't usually compare the likes of Cinebrass or LASS to VSL, i do like the idea of having the control over these features and although i do like the timestretching option, i feel it's alittle to involved given the other options out there. I'd never want to sacrifice the realism i get with VSL over the functionality of the above mentioned libraries but i'd feel that extra bit special if this was incorporated within the VSL software.

DM

Mac Pro 5,1 12 Core 3.46GHz 48gb RAM
Cubase Pro 10
Mac Mini i7 running VEP 6 Pro
MacPro 1.1 2 x 3Ghz running VEP 6 Pro
Posted on Mon, Mar 25 2013 17:22
by bhartmann
Joined on Thu, Mar 10 2011, Posts 170

 Not everyone posts here, but I think the feature would be much appreciated.

I have used a lot of sample libraries (and sample players and synthesizers...).  VSL is far ahead of everyone else and I want to see them maintain that lead.  The Dimension Series really moves VSL into new territory.

The Mighty Konrad
Posted on Tue, Mar 26 2013 12:29
by FrankyJoy
Joined on Thu, Jan 07 2010, Upstate Holland, Posts 7
+1

See, there are more....
Posted on Wed, Mar 27 2013 21:07
by mspape
Joined on Mon, Oct 09 2006, Posts 45

Agreed! Though you could do it yourself, no? Some work could be saved with this nifty, unsupported and seemingly (last time I read the manuals) undocumented feature: http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/34585/215832.aspx#215832 .

Posted on Thu, Mar 28 2013 09:28
by 9u10m
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 83

Yes, such extensive tweaking sets VI Pro in a league of its own. And I've never experienced anything like the Dimension Violins.

Then again, I think you shouldn't have to go under the hood to get a slow legato or a fast portamento. Such vital articulations should be available right out of the box. And this comes from a young person who is very keen on fiddling about with software (pun intended).

Anyway congrats on a visionary library, keep up the excellent work!

Posted on Thu, Mar 28 2013 11:10
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4620

For fast legato try out performance trill patches.

For faster portamento I recommend to check out the legato patches and trying out the various sul (force) variations.

Very flexible and realistic results can be achieved using different articulation within a instrument section, IMO much better results are possible compared to stretched samples.  

best

Herb

Posted on Thu, Mar 28 2013 17:27
by 9u10m
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 83

Thanks for your input Herb. I did find sul G legatos efficient (and beautifully warm) in the lower registers.

On higher registers though, especially with small intervals, I was only ever able to achieve a slower transition using stretched samples.

I have fast legatos covered with perf trills indeed!

Best

Posted on Thu, Mar 28 2013 18:22
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4620

 For smaller intervalls there is no "slower transition" in real live, because there is no position change with the left hand.

If you want a kind of slide you have to use a portamento articulation, here the player force a position change with left hand.

best

Herb

Posted on Thu, Mar 28 2013 18:48
by 9u10m
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 83

I agree, such transitions call for a portamento in the real word, but then call me stubborn, the only one duration the Dimension Violins offer is simply not enough to my taste.

I'm sure you know what I mean as we can find so many examples in the classical repertoire :)

Best

Posted on Thu, Mar 28 2013 20:23
by noldar12
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 582

 9u10m, to some extent, I would not agree with you.  There are cases/situations where composers call for slides/portamentos.  There are other cases where they naturally will occur: when shifting on the same string while executing a slur with the bow (a slide will not happen if the notes are played in the same position).  However, in a majority of cases, having that "slide" between notes tends to represent sloppy playing, and a good player will normally make sure those slides are not heard. 

Particularly when changing bow direction, if a slide is heard, the player is shifting while finishing the old bow stroke, something that generally represents poor bowing technique (note: I have been a bass player for a number of decades).  Normally, a shift is done to coincide with the new bow stroke, and is completed before the next note is fully sounding.  Even in long legato lines, many of the shifts will remain relatively clean.  Interestingly, thinking back to another company's library and another forum, one of the ways that one could tell that a mock-up was indeed a mock-up was when the person placed portamentos where they would normally not occur.

Posted on Thu, Mar 28 2013 20:53
by garylionelli
Joined on Wed, Jul 09 2003, Los Angeles, Posts 383

I think all some are asking for here are more legato transition times (without having to do the work themselves with time-stretching). The lack of a variable legato speed transition (which is a staple in LASS, to name another library), is missing from all VSL string libraries. There are only 2 speeds in VSL legato -- regular and port. I was hoping this would have been corrected/added with the new Dimension Strings. Unfortunately, Vienna Instruments Pro software does not have a variable "speed" knob, controllable by MIDI CC, as VSL's time-stretching method can't be calculated on the fly, or easily accessed as in LASS and some other libraries. That said, I've gone ahead and have created various presets with different cells with timestretching and am very happy with the results. But, it's a lot of work, and it would be nice if VSL gave us these different legato speed presets in their default sets, since user-created presets, over time, can get lost, etc.

Pro Tools Ultimate, Avid MTRX, Mac Pro 3.5 Ghz 6-Core (2014) 64 GB RAM, Mac OS Mojave, Samsung T5 SSDs
Posted on Fri, Mar 29 2013 08:13
by EP
Joined on Wed, Dec 10 2008, Posts 48

 I agree.   It's would be nice if the sample stretching/generating can also be MIDI activated. 

Posted on Fri, Mar 29 2013 08:34
by MacDude
Joined on Thu, Jun 04 2009, UK, Posts 57

+1 to that!!!

from a practical point of view, how challenging would that be for VSL to implement?

it seems like an obvious addition but I suspect it would take a lot of under the hood reprogramming.

but would offer so much more flexibility to the user!

DM

Mac Pro 5,1 12 Core 3.46GHz 48gb RAM
Cubase Pro 10
Mac Mini i7 running VEP 6 Pro
MacPro 1.1 2 x 3Ghz running VEP 6 Pro
Posted on Sat, Mar 30 2013 04:01
by strytten
Joined on Sat, Jan 06 2007, Posts 65

As a non string player I have enjoyed this thread and particularly noldarts post. Here's another question:

What does the "start" controller do to the interval. There are two settings and the a slider. Do they truncate part of the interval? The front part or the back part? What is the difference between the two settings (found in advance patch settings of vi pro)?

Steve Trytten
All VSL strings, winds, and most others, Vienna Imperial, VE Pro, MIR, Protools 10.3.5, Mac Mntn Lion 12 core, LASS, Ivory, Kontakt 5, Spitfire Sable Strings
Posted on Sat, Mar 30 2013 10:39
by Trailerman
Joined on Wed, Jun 14 2006, Manchester, UK, Posts 609

I raised the issue of legatos as soon as I bought Dimension strings, but the response was not terribly accomodating.

As a result I have rarely used them, especially for legatos.  For me the legatos are not 'legato' enough, certainly much less so than the Apassionatas.  I here very little transition between notes, just a new note starting, which doesn't deliver the right impression when trying to write expressive passages.   Subtlety is sometimes a good thing, but often a phrase needs a more pronounced legato feel.

The staccatos and short articulations are great, and I have used them for that purpose, but I second any motion to try and improve the legato/portamento performance on offer - however it's delivered.

System 1:

Windows 7 64bit
16 core, 3.4GHz E5-2687W, 128GB Ram,
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Mac Pro Mid 2010
12 core, 3GHz, 32GB Ram,
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Posted on Sat, Mar 30 2013 10:43
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Trailerman wrote:

For me the legatos are not 'legato' enough, certainly much less so than the Apassionatas.  I here very little transition between notes, just a new note starting, which doesn't deliver the right impression when trying to write expressive passages

I agree with that. In fact, I would go further. I think that the legatos need to be re-edited, because I don't think that they are of the same quality as the rest of VSL String libraries. I don't want to hear holes between start and destination notes, and lumpy transitions. Fix those, and then let's talk about whether or not there should be Presets for different speeds of Portamento.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Mar 30 2013 10:49
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4620

DG wrote:
I agree with that. In fact, I would go further. I think that the legatos need to be re-edited, because I don't think that they are of the same quality as the rest of VSL String libraries.
 

Interesting, because for me the DS legatos work better than any other string collection we have produced.

best

Herb

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