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Dongles
Last post Sat, Dec 31 2016 by DG, 45 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 16:42
by charles_30783
Joined on Thu, Sep 13 2007, Posts 31
It was never my intention to harm the Vienna Instrument user community by posting the offer. I was not aware this was a special "favour" and it would be unfortunate if future credible replacement problems were to be harmed by this action. Most of us are honest people in a very crazy and mobile business who sometimes simply lose things. I appreciate the hard work the VSL puts into this fine collection and I understand the need for protection of this intellectual property, but problems do arise. The good news for us on my end is that we tore the entire studio apart and finally found the dongle. It somehow got buried but it has now, after three weeks, been retrieved. From now on, now that the difficulty of replacement has been brought clearly to our attention, the key will be, when not in use and being transported, in a box strapped to the computer. Given the replacement issues, any future additions to this license will be carefully evaluated and possibly rejected due to the potential substantial loss of value.
Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 16:49
by charles_30783
Joined on Thu, Sep 13 2007, Posts 31
Julian - Good idea regarding a computer tagging the VSL website once a month to revalidate the license. Perhaps the license can have a 30 day clock that needs to be "reset" by VSL. The VSL server could verify not only the product but the machine (s) used. There may be some issues when a computer is changed or upgraded, but I think this could be solved. ~Charles
Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 18:52
by pjak
Joined on Sat, Mar 17 2007, Posts 49
herb wrote:

The license is the product.

The key holds the license.

If you loose the key you lost the product.

It's the same as if you have lost your car.

You won't get a new car from Ford, Merceds etc.

Maybe you get money from your assurance, if you have one.

We cannot control if you have sold or lost your key, therefor we cannot offer you  new products/licenses for free.

If we would do that, the amount of "lost" keys" would increase dramatically.

best

Herb

Hello Herb,

well, I am glad you bring up that comparison yourself!

If it was really applicable to the full extend, then we could easily sell our

license - just as simple as I could sell my Mercedes Wink

Btw, I still believe the restriction to prevent selling a license is invalid in Germany

anyway, in particular if a dongle is involved. Many companies, including Microsoft

and other biggies are trying to prevent resale of licenses, most of the time without

success.

Now I am afraid Volkswagen and Mercedes will introduce such restrictions too.

You wouldn't own the car anymore, just the license to use it! Permission to get it

fixed, if it breaks down, would be available for an extra fee, if desired.

Damn, that will push sales!

Sorry, really couldn't resist on this one...

The main problem however is, I do neither want to sell my Mercedes, nor my VSL

license. I would rather buy another license, like the SE Plus, but for some reason

you decided to continue to torture us by holding it back.You are so mean!

Give it to me baby!

Peter

Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 21:18
by aidanzl
Joined on Fri, Dec 07 2007, Posts 2

charles_30783 wrote:
Julian - Good idea regarding a computer tagging the VSL website once a month to revalidate the license. Perhaps the license can have a 30 day clock that needs to be "reset" by VSL. The VSL server could verify not only the product but the machine (s) used. There may be some issues when a computer is changed or upgraded, but I think this could be solved. ~Charles
 

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me... the last thing I want when I'm doing a studio session is to be reminded that VSL must "check my license" and, horror of horrors, have my software deactivated....

That said, having lots of valuable licenses in a little dongle can be a bit worrying when you move around. I occasionally do orchestra sessions in outside studios and take my laptop - lots of curious musicians hang around my rig during breaks and it wouldn't be too difficult to swipe the dongle. Oh well, I just have to unplug it each time and hang it round my neck on a strap. Problem is that this also means closing my software and reloading after the break.... aaargh!!!

So I guess insurance would be the way to go...  Does anyone know of a company that insures music gear and software in Italy? 

Regards,

Aidan 

Posted on Thu, Jan 03 2008 22:05
by Revson
Joined on Sun, Mar 18 2007, Posts 42
Right. I'm down here in Argentina with a $10,000 baggie full of dongles. I wouldn't suggest my wife bring her diamonds down here (uh, if she had some...well she does have the one), but I've no choice.


I suppose the dongles are the best current solution, but in certain respects they are far from a good solution, and place an inappropriate burden on customers.


It would be one thing if insurance for loss or theft was readily available, as it is for automobiles (and jewels...), but it is not. This is one huge grey area in existing policies (many of which limit coverage for computer and audio equipment to begin with). I do think developers, and especially the anti-piracy developers like Syncrosoft and Pace, have a responsibility to sort things in this area.


If I must have dongles, why couldn't they be secured physically (as in a "wired" safe deposit box), and then pinged remotely when I want to use the software? Really, Pace and Syncrosoft are taking in hefty fees...they need to put in the work to earn them.



That said, I hold zero malice for music software developers using dongles. I reserve that for the f@#*ing software thieves that have brought this all about.
Posted on Fri, Jan 04 2008 06:32
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9139

on several occasions (like eg. a fair) it has become common practice to secure various parts from beeing *displaced*, even if they are of a dimension which would make us assume it would be impossible to displace them ...

 

ideas and suggestions to make a license expire regulary or beeing dependant on *touching a server* should be considered very carefully and in their whole depth of pros and cons - i think it is much more critical to have a license stored on the computer or bound to a harddisk/network interface/ect than to a dongle. de-authorizing a license from a computer or harddisk which has died can easily become a mess and reveals finally the same problem as not beeing able to access a license on a key which is *offline*

 

it sound to me a little bit like spirit of the age is tending to make everybody else responsible for taking care on things/gear/ect except oneselves ...

 

let me add a counterexample here: i have a really expensive backup software for which the serial number has been lost somewhen and obviously nobody ever registered it at the vendor's website. not only that now i'm not able to upgrade it aslo i would need to purchase a new full version and i will never be able to transfer the license to another server - i would be really happy to have the license on a dongle to simply attach it to another machine ...

christian

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Fri, Jan 04 2008 14:57
by charles_30783
Joined on Thu, Sep 13 2007, Posts 31
Christian:

“t sound to me a little bit like spirit of the age is tending to make everybody else responsible for taking care on things/gear/ect except oneselves ...”


I try not to be in that mindset. I usually take very good care of my gear to the point where I still have and use vintage synths from years and years ago that look and work as new. The issue for me is that the dongle is so small and fragile that it is very easy to misplace or damage. Given the value of the products registered on the dongle, I would be willing to pay more money for a more permanent in-computer solution. A PCI card could do the trick ( of course, it would take up slot) or a more substantial outboard box rather than a flimsy plastic dongle.

Another idea I am toying with is to reverse the input on my computer USB port and actually have the dongle INSIDE the computer as opposed to outside exposed to harm.

What happens if the dongle breaks or dies (as opposed to lost)? This would be no fault of the owner. Can the license be replaced at no charge then?

Incidentally, I have spoken with my insurance agent and am placing additional coverage on this software. For in-studio use, the cost is about $100 a year for $25,000 worth of protection with only a $50 deduction. This brings more peace of mind given the ephemeral nature of the dongle. I am not sure what out of studio costs would be for traveling.

Charles
Posted on Fri, Jan 04 2008 15:08
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622

If the dongle breaks or dies it's no problem to replace the dongle and all licenses.

The dongle has to be registered and the dongle has to be sent to our distributors (or to Vienna).

Than we can look at the dongle number and check the licenses holding on that key in a Syncrosoft database interface.

And than you will get a new dongle with new licenses from Vienna.

best

Herb

Posted on Fri, Jan 04 2008 15:19
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9139

.. as this post already explains ... in 1a) 1b) and 2)

christian

 

edit: and you can request a demo mode license to get up and running again with almost no delay ...

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Fri, Jan 04 2008 18:59
by LazyPeon
Joined on Fri, Apr 13 2007, Germany, Berlin, Posts 85
I actually think julians idea is not bad, though I'd make it a little bit different.
Not with a forced one monthly internet-sniffing, but more like a manual "refreshing" of the licence (which could be time-limited to one month or so .. of course, the more the better for the user).

So let's say, you plan to work somewhere else the next weeks, then you get a fresh licence, which will work for the next month [and if you're unlucky you loose it in this time].
After this month, if no refresh is done, the licence on the dongle just expires [so if somebody stole it or found it, after one month it's definetly useless to him]. Then you have to get a new one from the internet (which would be only possible as registered user).
But it should be possible to refresh the licence, even if it still has days to go.

Well ... dunno if that's possible with the current version of Synchrosoft-Dongles ... but if it is, I think it would be really a cool thing.
I think to have to take some minutes to refresh the dongle once a month is better than the danger to loose maybe thousands of Euros.



By the way:
What do I have to do to make the forum showing my message with all the stanzas I made ?
Posted on Sat, Jan 05 2008 18:47
by Revson
Joined on Sun, Mar 18 2007, Posts 42
cm wrote:

it sound to me a little bit like spirit of the age is tending to make everybody else responsible for taking care on things/gear/ect except oneselves ...


I think this is more about intelligent (anti-piracy) product design.

Observe that a serial number is something that can be duplicated, and safely and inconspicuously hidden in multiple places!


I do like the simplicity of dongles and their portability. I just think their implementation needs to be refined with respect to loss/theft.

cm wrote:
let me add a counterexample here: i have a really expensive backup software for which the serial number has been lost somewhen and obviously nobody ever registered it at the vendor's website.

This however does seem to fall under "responsible for taking care on things." :)
Posted on Sat, Jan 05 2008 23:03
by stevesong
Joined on Mon, Oct 18 2004, NYC, Posts 714

 The analogy with a car is not, I think, a perfect one. If, for example, you lose the key to your "Mercedes" (or any other car) you can get another without paying for a new car. You can insure your car against loss or theft, but the price of the key is, most likely, less than the deductible.

The basic problem with using this analogy is that automobile manufacturers do not confront the same problems as software manufacturers. There are, so far as I know, no ubiquitously available, inexpensive, automobile duplicating machines that would allow you to make perfectly functional copies of your Mercedes  (and thus get two or ten for the price of one + the cost of the "duplicator" and materials) while software can be copied in just such fashion from hard drive to hard drive. Hence the need for copy protection.

However the problem of lost or stolen Vienna keys may need to be thought through more comprehensively so that, if possible, some kind of technical solution might be offered.  (What if, for example, the first time a key was inserted into a computer, it required a visit to the Syncorosoft site for an authorization check - - so that keys reported lost or stolen could then be automatically deauthorized.) In the meantime, buy insurance. 

Stephen Siegel
New York City

MacPro (4.1) dual-quad Xeon @ 2.9.3 Ghz
24GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
2 960 GB OWC E2 Mercury Accelsior SSDs one dedicated to samples and the other partitioned into a partition for samples and a part ion for apps and files.
MOTU 2408 MK III (PCIe)

MacBook Pro with 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM; OS 10.8.5
MOTU 828
Firmtek/Seritek 2SM2-E Express Card SATA adapter.

Logic 9.1.6.; Finale 2011
Posted on Sun, Jan 06 2008 10:19
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9139

the analogy with a car is far away from beeing perfect but to spin your objection further: since copying of software happens at almost no costs consequently the first specimen of a software should be paid and all following ones almost free (because only copies) .... obviously also not applying.

additionally the situation is different because we don't talk about software but copyrighted content - you can get a replacement for your ViennaInstruments or ViennaEnsemble software whenever you like.

 

as posted earlier: any alternate method like *touching a server* or actually *touching when inserted into a new computer* needs extensive considerations of pros and cons.

many music computers (if not most) are not connected to the internet, thats why i find the offline license download so useful.

the only occasion such a method could even work is when a license is beeing transferred or added, in case the dongle is kept offline you never have a chance to check.

 

christian

 

 

and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Wed, Jul 06 2011 12:17
by Rachmaninoff3
Joined on Mon, Jun 27 2011, England, Posts 29
Hi I wonder if you could help me out wit an issue I've had with my Vienna key...
I bought the Special edition, got it up and running and within a week my key has just stopped working, won't be detected at all. So I got hold of support and they asked me to send it to them and they'll take a look at it and if there's not huge damage, they'll send me a new one with my license on it. They also offered me in teh mean time a demo license (which I'd have to get a new key for) Will this demo license work with my already installed samples and software? I really don't want to have to go through the sh**ty process of organising my soundsets and installations again haha Do you know how it works?
Posted on Wed, Jul 06 2011 12:38
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13528

Hello Rachmaninoff3,

Yes, the demo license we send via support will work with your custom presets, no worries.

Best,

Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Dec 15 2016 20:34
by jjim1
Joined on Tue, Dec 13 2005, woodstock, ga 30188, Posts 52

Doug,

I have lost the vienna key that allowed me to run the vienna ensemble pro on my master computer.

How do I obtain a  new  one?

 

james Ferguson

Posted on Thu, Dec 15 2016 21:58
by jjim1
Joined on Tue, Dec 13 2005, woodstock, ga 30188, Posts 52

Doug,

I have lost the vienna key of the VEP server on my master computer.  What is the process for  obtaining another on?

Thanks,

 

James Ferguson

Woodstock, GA, 30188

Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2016 00:42
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13528

Hi James, 

Please contact , my colleagues will guide you through.

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Dec 18 2016 07:54
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13528

Hi, 

Happy to say that Jim has found his key (but decided to inform us via email). 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Dec 22 2016 19:47
by PauloRego
Joined on Sat, May 14 2016, Posts 49

Forgive me if this has been answered already...

I'm not worried about losing my key, I keep it in a safe place and if it gets stolen well then thats just sods law. I'm just worried about breaking it from inserting/re-inserting it whenever I use it - sometimes the red light doesn't light up when I insert it for instance and I have to try again). I'm glad we can return it and get a replacement by covering the postage costs.

I bought a new key to cover me for 2 years, but I just think it's a waste to buy one every 2 years (economically and environmentally).

If it breaks outside the 2 year warranty period can we pay for a new key and the P&P? Or are there license costs we have to pay in addition to this?

Thanks

Symphonic Cube Standard, Appassionata Strings I Standard, Fanfare Trumpets Full, Epic Orchestra, Vienna Instruments Pro 2, Vienna Ensemble Pro 6, Vienna Suite, MIRx Teldex Scoring Stage, The Sage Gateshead, Konzerthaus Grosser Saal & Konzerthaus Mozartsaal

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