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How to Set Up a LAN with Vienna Instrument?
Last post Wed, Oct 25 2006 by Fontenette, 30 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Apr 12 2006 21:04
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
How much GB is the full Vienna Instrument library?

Are all volumes, as advertised already available?

.
Posted on Wed, Apr 12 2006 21:39
by JWL
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Posts 1274
This is from
http://ilio.com/vienna/instruments/index.html"="" target="_blank" title="http://ilio.com/vienna/instruments/index.html">http://ilio.com/vienna/instruments/index.html">http://ilio.com/vienna/instruments/index.html


• Over 800,000 samples and over 550 GB of sample data in 44.1kHz/24bit

Only the first half of the VI Cube is available now. These include all the strings plus Woodwinds I.

It seems that the remaining volumes should be forthcoming over the next couple of months, barring any delays.
Posted on Wed, Apr 12 2006 21:50
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
Thanks...

Would it be a good idea to store/spread the full Vinenna Instrument volumes on let's say 4 harddisc, this also for more transfer power? Would it technically work with the plugin?

.
Posted on Thu, Apr 13 2006 01:50
by Vagn Luv
Joined on Sun, Apr 02 2006, Copenhagen, DK, Posts 271
Yes, that will work Angelo. And as long as the HDs all are attached to the same computer, u will only need one Vienna Key.

4 HDs sound a bit much though. It all depends on what type of drives and interfaces u plan on using. I believe the full library should run fine off 2 SATA disks holding nothing but the library, with no hickups under heavy scoring. But in the end, only VSL can answer that question.
Pro Tools 9.0.6 HD2, 3x192

Windows 7 64bit Ultimate (with SP1)

PC, Asus P6T Delux v2 MoBo, i7 920 D0 @ 3.8 stable, 24GB RAM, GeForce 285 using 285.38 driver, Intel X25-M G2 120GB SSD sytem drive, Intel SSD and Raptor HDDs for sample streaming.
Posted on Thu, Apr 13 2006 05:17
by JWL
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Posts 1274
Herb recommended 2 drives-- could be FW or SATA as long as they are 7200 rpm or faster, 350GB each, I believe.

Here are some links to other similar topics with tips, suggestions, recommendations, etc.

http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=7778
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=7428
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=7064

Paul's FAQ pdf for VI.
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=6909
Posted on Thu, Apr 13 2006 09:11
by Ramu
Joined on Fri, Mar 14 2003, Paris, Posts 110
Vagn Luv wrote:
, with no hickups under heavy scoring. But in the end, only VSL can answer that question.


I'm using 9 VI on 1 computer (viol 1,2,violas, cellos, bass, flutes, clars, oboe, bassons) and I wrote a "not very fast but intense score" using a lot of repetition and legato. My dedicated Pc using Vstack is 3 Ghz with 4 gigs of ram with a RME 96/52. My Hd is a brand new SATA 7200 rpm.

First I used a 256 ms for latency and I had a lot of glitches. Now I'm with 512 ms and trully I can't write the music I wish to (or I should buy a new computer). It's kind of annoying to have those electronic glitches. I might be the only one to experience that since nobody talked about it (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't know if it's the VI itself or just my gear
Posted on Thu, Apr 13 2006 10:01
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
All our clients have at least 4 HD's anyhow, two internal and two in cartridges, so that's no issue here, but it's time to bring my audio client up to the latest specs, single 3.8 or dualcore 3.2 GHz. However i will store the libraries on a extra server. The amount of content we deal with is to large to be stored at the workstations. All our stations are on LAN 128 MB/s, so the next question please:

- Can the VSL library be stored on a server, and deliver the content via LAN to my workplace for playback, and render back to another server?
I have to check if the music prod. supports LAN, i don't know that yet, but i think if the sequencer can do it, it will work.

- Where has the Syncrosoft Key be pluged in, at the central server or on my workstation?
Only my workstatione will use the VSL library, since i'm the only composer here.

.
Posted on Thu, Apr 13 2006 13:34
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
Dietz, in case you read this, please have a look over at Nuendo

http://www.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=82522&sid=d8b352b2126bfd532c5be572e0ec75e2#82522

.
Posted on Thu, Apr 13 2006 17:56
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9116
angelo, you can store the data for the ViennaInstruments wherever you want .... i'd recommend to mount a network drive on the client (say V:\\ for VSL) and point in the DirectoryManager to the folders in this location.

the ViennaKey has to be attached to the computer, where the software is running, independant from where in your network the data is stored.

you mention 128MB/s as network speed - i'd assume this means GigaBit, which is fine, a 100Mbit network can easily be too slow

christian
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Thu, Apr 13 2006 18:18
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
cm wrote:
...you mention 128MB/s as network speed - i'd assume this means GigaBit, which is fine

christian


Thanks

Yes i was refering to the GigaBit on the motherboard, which would be the simplest solution, and also the 3 old computers already have.

The assembler company also mentioned NAS, SAN etc. however i have to make myself smart on that stuff first, since they don't test the software i will use, but just assemble the machines.

I don't even know by now which new music prod. software it will be, possibly Nuendo. I mostly still work on the latest Logic on PC with Kontakt, before Mac took over. ----> However i wouldn't mind a Mac if it has advantages. The mix studio is anyhow Mac.

LAN etc., any experience with audio prod. anybody already made is highly welcome...

.
Posted on Thu, Apr 13 2006 18:54
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9116
NAS means Network Attached Storage - be aware most of them are accessible using SMB (a protocol with much overhead), only a few are using iSCSI - a homeversion can be found also from maxtor
SAN is a Storage Area Network (a whole network of storage devices using concentrators to share data with servers or clients) and both are mostly used in enterprise enviroments and IMO overkill ... at VSL we manage terabytes of data with a *simple* fileserver and standard gigabit ethernet.

be aware not all solutions are configured to work best for sample streaming, if the company only assembles and doesn't have any experience with the resulting real-world performance .... hmmm

because you mention MACs: the Xraid (configured not to cache) is a confirmed good solution, accessible via SCSI or fibre - also here make sure you purchase from an audio solution expert
christian
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Fri, Apr 14 2006 13:32
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
cm wrote:
... at VSL we manage terabytes of data with a *simple* fileserver and standard gigabit ethernet.

christian


I like it simple!

I guess at vsl you use, NIC's, Fibre or Optical, Routers and Switches, but i could test the basic Small Network with the three computers in my office and it's RJ45 on the motherboards, i would even know how to test that myself....

...with a little guidance from microsoft Switzerland:

Ein kleines Netzwerk mit Windows XP:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;DE;813936

The same in english: How to Set Up a Small Network Part 1-8:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/814235/en-us

.
Posted on Fri, Apr 14 2006 18:18
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9116
yes we use NICs, if a motherboard doesn't have gigabit on board, we add a gigabit NIC or two
all devices are connected via unmanaged gigabit switches - you see, everything is copper, no fibre, no optical, but make sure your cables and connectors are high quality.
the plug for this type of connection is RJ45, it is downward compatible with 100 and 10 Mbit devices (also the switches), routers do only connect the office network to the internet.
everything is using TCP/IP, which i'd recommend to configure manually to avoid surprise with *selfconfiguring abilities*.
a fileserver doesn't need to be a very powerfull machine, it has just to offer a lot of channels to attach storage devices.
christian
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Sat, Apr 15 2006 02:48
by Nick Batzdorf
Joined on Tue, Apr 29 2003, Los Angeles, Posts 2546
I'm trying to think this through in case I'm missing something: is there an advantage to storing the samples on a server if the V.I. player runs on one machine only? in other words, you're not distributing the processing or memory over multiple machines, are you?
Mac Pro 5,1 12-core 3.46 GHz, 64MB RAM, latest macOS available. Metric Halo 2882 interface.

VisionDAW Windows 7 Pro i7 950 3.07 4-core, 24GB RAM. Has an RME Hammerfall HDSP9632, but I just use VE Pro. Also several ancient P4 XP slaves, rarely used.
Posted on Sat, Apr 15 2006 05:22
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9116
you are right, nick - no, it's only an organizational question where to store data.
christian
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Thu, Oct 19 2006 22:52
by synthetic
Joined on Mon, Mar 14 2005, Posts 280
I'm bumping this thread. I'm looking at an Infrant ReadyNAS RAID 5 server for my samples. The idea is that sample libraries would be available to both my Mac and PC (VI dongles plugged into each, of course).

http://www.infrant.com/products/products_details.php?name=ReadyNAS%20NV

I guess I'm just looking for assurances and success stories about running samples over Gigabit. The most I've done over internet so far is MIDIoverLAN, and I've gotten some stuck notes. (Using 10/100, though). I assume a Firewire drive delivers 50MB/sec, where these servers can do 32MB/sec. Is that enough?
Posted on Fri, Oct 20 2006 01:15
by Nick Batzdorf
Joined on Tue, Apr 29 2003, Los Angeles, Posts 2546
Synthetic, we had an article in Virtual Instruments magazine a few issues ago by Jesse White, who was the tech at a high-pressure TV composing studio for a long time. He had everything connected by gigabit ethernet and FX Teleport.

It wasn't 10/100, but ethernet cards are cheap.
Mac Pro 5,1 12-core 3.46 GHz, 64MB RAM, latest macOS available. Metric Halo 2882 interface.

VisionDAW Windows 7 Pro i7 950 3.07 4-core, 24GB RAM. Has an RME Hammerfall HDSP9632, but I just use VE Pro. Also several ancient P4 XP slaves, rarely used.
Posted on Fri, Oct 20 2006 06:37
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9116
this device looks basically fine, but you have to consider a few things regarding sample streaming and i would strongly recommend to get feedback from someone using this device succesfully in a real-world environment.
- this devices usually run some kind of embedded LINUX
- the internal filesystem is assumably ReiserFS
- therefore they do support neither HFS+ nor NTFS via network
- CIFS/SMB and AFP are the protocols with the largest overhead
- video streaming is another access-trype than sample streaming
- i could not find any absolute performance numbers (throughput)
- mentioning RAM size points to extensive caching behaviour, which is not the best behaviour when it comes to sample streaming, so try to get some thoughput figures for requesting tiny portions (eg. 128, 64 or even less kB) from large files (several MB), get some info if and how caching behaviour would be configurable

i'm just pointing all this out to avoid possible disappointment ...
christian
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Fri, Oct 20 2006 17:02
by synthetic
Joined on Mon, Mar 14 2005, Posts 280
Thanks again for your help. I'll try to find this information from their forum.
Posted on Fri, Oct 20 2006 17:14
by Jerome
Joined on Mon, Jul 10 2006, Los Angeles, CA, Posts 298
cm, would having one network fileserver for our 8 Mac Mini work?

In other word, if we stored all the samples on a network drive, in a gigabit network, would that be a viable solution to stream samples from?

What kind of difference would that make from having the samples on the system (SATA) drive?

Jerome
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