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Pro Tools 8LE and VSL Vienna SE plus download instruments
Last post Thu, Aug 13 2009 by crutkowski, 12 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Jan 04 2009 05:34
by Fiery Angel
Joined on Mon, Nov 07 2005, Milton ON, Posts 311

Does not work. I am assuming this is a flaw with Digidesign who probably did not test VSL plugs when they released PT8. Pity because I love the new GUI better than Logic, DP6, Cubase, and Sonar (on PC). Don't ask me why I own all of those....

 Perhaps it is the RTAS combined with the MBox2 Micro. Why oh why does Digidesign make audio software for USB and not Firewire? My Apogee Duet works like a charm combined with the AU plugs on my Mac Pro. I mean, I continually get hang ups with PT even when I load a simply Upright Bass pizz sound. Sheesh.

 Obviously this will be addressed in an update sometime in the future but for the time being, I cannot use VSL products at all without stalling the entire system. Digi's native RTAS like Xpand2 which has a lot of nice sounds does not yield the same results. Other 3rd party plug ins have marginal success and failure. I tried Pianoteq and that too messed up PT8.

 Does anyone else use PT8 and has found a work-around to use their beloved VSL on a similar system as mine?

 Mac Pro 2.66 ghz Quad Core w. 4 gigs of RAM.

 Sample Buffer is set to 1024 samples because anything lower crashes the system with VSL or other third party plugs.

I compose therefore I am.
Posted on Mon, Jan 05 2009 16:06
by john_1332
Joined on Thu, Feb 13 2003, Posts 109
HI David. Looks like we have the same computer, but I'm running ProTools 8 HD, and I have 16GB RAM. I'm using VE 2 with Appassionata Strings and Special Edition as well as the downloaded Bb Clarinet. I remember months ago when I added the download instrument I had to go through a lot of updating of the Vienna software to get everything to work. So far (knock on wood) I haven't had any major issues with any plug-ins in ProTools 8 -- everything I had working in 7.4.2 continues to work in 8. (Weirdly, the one thing that didn't work on switching to 8- Purple Audio MC77 Compressor, something I never used anyway -- came back yesterday after I re-ran the installer).


I am having problems with another library that runs in Kontakt. ProTools 8 is sending some cc information to the wrong place in the plug-in. I also notice some issues with the volume automation. But VE and VSL are so far working well...
Posted on Mon, Jan 05 2009 22:28
by Fiery Angel
Joined on Mon, Nov 07 2005, Milton ON, Posts 311
john_1332 wrote:
HI David. Looks like we have the same computer, but I'm running ProTools 8 HD, and I have 16GB RAM. I'm using VE 2 with Appassionata Strings and Special Edition as well as the downloaded Bb Clarinet. I remember months ago when I added the download instrument I had to go through a lot of updating of the Vienna software to get everything to work. So far (knock on wood) I haven't had any major issues with any plug-ins in ProTools 8 -- everything I had working in 7.4.2 continues to work in 8. (Weirdly, the one thing that didn't work on switching to 8- Purple Audio MC77 Compressor, something I never used anyway -- came back yesterday after I re-ran the installer).

John, which interface are you using?  I have the Mbox2 Micro which uses a USB port as opposed to Firewire and I'm wondering if this, compounded with the Syncrosoft USB key and the fact that RTAS are CPU pigs is yielding my results.  Funny enough, Kontakt is the one library that has the least problems.  I suppose I could always re-install Vienna player with the RTAS.  It couldn't hurt.  As it is, I'm stuck using the VSL bundled library on Kontakt 3 even though I have Vienna SE, Brass, Wind, Strings PLUS, and Epic Horns + Fanfare Trumpet downloads.  Sheesh, I guess I like VSL!

I compose therefore I am.
Posted on Mon, Jan 05 2009 22:51
by john_1332
Joined on Thu, Feb 13 2003, Posts 109
Since I'm HD I have a 192 interface. I do also have a MBox Micro for my portable rig, but I haven't tried running Vienna on this. I wonder if the problem might be the RAM, since when I went to the ProTools 8 demonstration the Digidesign people seemed bearish on the system requirements. I know that I really have to watch my Activity Monitor when I'm doing big sessions with VE, and that once the meter gets up into the 3.8 range it might crash. The fact that PT8 is a needing more RAM and VE also needs a lot may put 4GB on the low end of meeting requirements. I bought 16GB at OWC simply in anticipation of the 64 bit world which we all dream of. Now even in big sessions my overall RAM usage is around 30%.
Posted on Tue, Jan 06 2009 17:26
by Fiery Angel
Joined on Mon, Nov 07 2005, Milton ON, Posts 311
John, I tried the latest version of Vienna Ensemble with PT8 this morning and it worked fine. Very little CPU usage. It is only when I load in a Vienna Player as a RTAS that it chokes the PT program and my system. Weird. I guess VE because it is a separate app takes some of the load off of the host program such as PT8. Whatever the case may be, I'm happy I can use all of my VSL sounds in PT, if only in VE as opposed to separate VI players for the time being.

Dave

p.s. thanks for the help on this matter. Much appreciated!

I compose therefore I am.
Posted on Tue, Jan 06 2009 17:54
by john_1332
Joined on Thu, Feb 13 2003, Posts 109
Glad I could help a little bit. I remember when I first got the Special Edition I tried the SE demo session that you can download on my G5 in Logic, and the little CPU meter would always spike. That session uses multiple instances of Vienna Instruments, not the Ensemble. Ensemble is much more efficient. And hopefully, it will someday be 64 bit.




One thing I find in using VE -- I now do all my stage positioning by sending out of the multiple outputs in VE. For example, I have six outputs just for the strings, then I have woodwinds left, woodwinds center, woodwinds right, then I have rear left, rear center, rear right. That's 12 outputs, which leaves 4 for special cases. I know you're supposed to pan and send reverb in the VE, but I'm never happy with the imaging. Also, if you pan the basses right in VE the reberb send still sees them as centered. This new way I can do all the panning and reverb sending in ProTools, then I just hide all those auxes and forget about them, and I do the volume adjustments with the midi channels.


I know this is off topic, but it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately.




JD
Posted on Thu, Jan 15 2009 23:48
by Fiery Angel
Joined on Mon, Nov 07 2005, Milton ON, Posts 311

Ironically, VSL Vienna Ensemble is the only plug in that works marvelously with PT8 aside from their bundled instruments that come with the program.  Sounds great though with VSL.  

I compose therefore I am.
Posted on Fri, Jan 16 2009 02:21
by mahag
Joined on Thu, Dec 02 2004, Posts 69

I got Pro Tools 8 LE a few days ago now.  I'm happy to report that it's running just as good or better than it was with Pro Tools 7.4.  I'm using Vienna Ensemble 3. Thought you'd like to know.

DAW: Mac 4 core G5, 7.5 GB RAM, OSX10.5.5 / 4 VE3s running on 2  PCs, a MAC g5 1.8Ghz and one localhost

Posted on Fri, Jan 16 2009 13:14
by Fiery Angel
Joined on Mon, Nov 07 2005, Milton ON, Posts 311

Yes, VE is a terrific app and I am finding that I'm using VSL even more than before.   Glad I got it.

I compose therefore I am.
Posted on Wed, Aug 12 2009 16:58
by crutkowski
Joined on Thu, May 01 2008, Posts 11

Hi John,

I just discovered this thread, hopefully you'll get an email notice about my question.

I have the same CPU problem with individual instances of VI in PT 8.  Immediate freeze and crash....

VE2 seems to be the way to go-do you have enough control of the VI performance parameters, eg volume crossfade, from the PT instrument track (are you using midi tracks?).  A general question:  What, if anything do you lose by use Vienna Ensemble instead of individual RTAS instruments in separate tracks?

Thanks!

Chris R.

Posted on Thu, Aug 13 2009 01:02
by john_1332
Joined on Thu, Feb 13 2003, Posts 109

I can safely say that you don't lose any functionality by using VE2, and you gain a lot in performance.  You can also route each instrument out of it's own stereo path and come into Pro Tools at 16 auxes for very elaborate panning, tweaking, etc.  The midi tracks are fine for sending most information such as keyswitches and expression -- which I map to velocity crossfades -- but if I want to move an instrument's position during a song, which doesn't happen often, then I just make sure it has its own output into ProTools.

This thread is a bit old.  I also now have Vienna Suite which I'm finding very useful.  It obviously interfaces well with VE.  Now if they would only release the Pro version, I'd be set.

John D.

Posted on Thu, Aug 13 2009 01:42
by crutkowski
Joined on Thu, May 01 2008, Posts 11

Thanks, John.  This is very useful.  

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