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Advanced VEPro Questions
Last post Mon, Sep 28 2009 by Karel, 26 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 11:34
by BloodyJoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 06 2008, Stuttgart, Posts 33

So after getting and trying my new copy of VEPro and working with it with a slave computer I have some questions, advanced ones:

1.

To control, setup the VEPro instances I need to be in control of that slave machine (seperate mouse end keys)? What I mean is, is there no built in remote control for slave instances of VEPro? What I want is controlling all my slave instances on the other workstation from the master without pending between two computer. Is something like that planned? I would pay for that.

2.

In addition to 1. are there any plans in the future to have an option of exchanging that small server interface VST with the actual VEPro instance once its established? So the instruments/VEPro session would be visible in cubase directly and not in the background(master) or on another monitor(slave). Such a function would help alot. VEPro is a little too cumbersome at the moment.

3.

I'm using VEPro with cubase4. When I reload a project with some VST plugin VEPro server interfaces, the VEPro instances are not set up properly. I additionally need to click at that down arrow and then click on "Load plugin data" on every instance. Is that meant to be so? Is it possible to set that to automatic connect? I don't want to click every VEPro instance everytime I reload a big project.

4.

Is it true that you can load only 8 VEPro instances? I haven't tried but I want to use the Cubase4 instrument tracks. And there will be many of them which means one VEPro instance per instrument track. Is that possible or is VEPro meant to be used multitimbral in the VSTrack with midi many tracks?

5.

Is it possible to control Kore2 with the Kore2 controller via LAN on the slave with VEPro? I tried it but the Kore2 controller won't recognize the Kore2VST loaded in VEPro on the other computer. When I use VEPro the same way on the master machine it works due to the Kore2 controller is plugged in the master. Is there a workaround or is it simply not possible (wouldn't be a big letdown but with 1. or 2. built in it would work I think)?

These are my questions/improvement-feature requsts for now. I love this piece of software! Great work.

Thanks for reading, I am waiting for updates. Specs: both computers C2D3GHz, 4GBRAM, Cubase4.5, WinXP32Bit

Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 11:47
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Ever mind "thinks for reading", it's almost impossible, due to the lack of formatting in your post...! Nevertheless I'll try to help where I can:

  1. You can use Remote Desktop.
  2. I don't know, but the server window is actually quite handy if you have more than one instance per slave, and also if you want to load all slaves at the same time, rather than them being done in sequence. It could save 20 or so minutes loading time with the current system.
  3. If you set up the project correctly in the first place, it should be automatic (AFAIK)
  4. Who told you that? Have you tried more instances? In any case, why would you need more instances, considering that you can use 128 MIDI channels and 64 stereo outputs per instance. Don't use Instrument Tracks. This is completely the wrong way of working with VE Pro. Use the VST rack and MIDI tracks.
  5. I don't know.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 12:34
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1723
BloodyJoe wrote:

5.

Is it possible to control Kore2 with the Kore2 controller via LAN on the slave with VEPro? I tried it but the Kore2 controller won't recognize the Kore2VST loaded in VEPro on the other computer. When I use VEPro the same way on the master machine it works due to the Kore2 controller is plugged in the master. Is there a workaround or is it simply not possible (wouldn't be a big letdown but with 1. or 2. built in it would work I think)?

5. No. Kore controller operates directly with the USB protocol from plugin to controller. Unless it is connected to the same computer as the process is running on - it will not work.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 12:37
by BloodyJoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 06 2008, Stuttgart, Posts 33

Thanks for your opinion

About your answers DG:

1. Remote desktop somehow is not working.

2. I'm not talking about the Vienna Pro Server App, what I meant was the "Server Interface VST3 plugin". It would be nice to have that "transform" into the VEPro instance when it is connected. When I then click on the "e"/instrument button in cubase, the VEPro instance would open directly showing me my instruments. That would be a dream to control every VEPro instance on the masters cubase!

3. I have not a firm tamplate. I need very different instruments in every new project so I'm setting it up anew everytime and to do this I only wan't to use my master sequencer (cubase4).

4. Haven't tried it yet, just heard it on the board, instrument tracks are optimal for me using local VST plugins especially with synths.

5. Kore2 from NI is a little bit special, I think it won't work. Like MS said! Unfortunately, but that is ok!

Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 13:11
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
  1.  I think you should start another thread fro finding out why RD isn't working. I dont'  use it currently, but previously I used it for quite a few years with no problem.
  2. I think that what you would like is what many of us would like, but because of the memory usage outside of the host application it is not possible. Actually, i think Christian wrote that it is possible in Windows but not in OSX, but i might have been dreaming.
  3. I think that as a lot of what you want seems the total opposite of what VE Pro was designed for, it would be very helpful if you could explain which features you bought it for, so that you won't get irrelevant advice.
  4. I still think that Instrument tracks for VE Pro are not the way to go, until the update that Steinberg has promised that makes Instrument tracks Multitimbral. However, if you want to work like this, just be aware that for every plug you add, you lose performance.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 13:31
by BloodyJoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 06 2008, Stuttgart, Posts 33

About2: the plugin must run on the slave but I want to control it remotely from the main DAW. Looks like I got to buy another TFT :)

About3: I want to use VEPro to spread my very cpu and ram consuming plugins over different computers to load way more instruments. For this reason I bought VEPro and it is workying well. Just not as perfect as I hoped it to be.

Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 13:39
by Sonomusic3
Joined on Mon, Feb 16 2009, Posts 43

BloodyJoe,

As far as #2, I agree.  I was hoping the "e" button would open Ensemble the same way it works in FX Teleport and Jbridge but it doesn't seem to be implemented ( at least in Vista64 I have yet to try it on my Mac pro.)

Now I have a question, is there any way to address several instruments within one instance of the server at the same time? 

I can load up several instruments in each ensemble instance but it seems Cubase can only address one instrument/16 midi channels at a time.  It plays whatever is selected.  I think it is because Cubase doesn't recognize different ports. My solution has been to open an Ensemble instance for each Kontakt 3.5  or whatever instrument I want.  Any suggestions?

Also any way to preload these and reconnect after I launch a project?

It is a nice piece of software.

Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 13:58
by BloodyJoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 06 2008, Stuttgart, Posts 33

I can load up more instruments per VEPro instance. If you want that you can play every instrument with seperate midi tracks you have to load the VEPro instance with the server interface VST in the VSTRack and set the midi and audio ports right (cubase and VEPro instance). If you use it in a instrument track you can still put many different instruments together (like with Kore2), but you have only one midi control track, ie ist not multi. And all instruments will play together.

Right click in the VEPro instance (VSTRack->ServerInterface->VEButton(master instance)) and select "New VSTi" then set up the midi and audio channel in VEPro.If that instance is on a slave (mostly it will be this way) you have to do this on the other computer(slave) because you can't control the slave instances from your master computer, setup is still the same.

At last you must set up a new audio channel in the cubase VST rack (that you set the new vst to) and create a new cubase midi track set to the corresponding midi channel in the VEPro instance.

So you can load K3.5, Kore2, Sylenth1, another K3,5, VSLInstrument all in one VEPro instance for example and play them with different midi tracks and output the sounds on different stereo output tracks.Auto connect dosen't work, unfortunately we must reload the plugins in every VEPro instance manually (click on the arrow "load plugin data" it's fast so not that big deal). I'm not using the VSTPro server windows (though they must be running in the background) but I'm loading everything directly from my cubase projects. So I have to reload all VEPro instances manually. Hope that an automatic function will be implented in future versions!
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 14:18
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1723
CSTeam wrote:

I can load up several instruments in each ensemble instance but it seems Cubase can only address one instrument/16 midi channels at a time.  It plays whatever is selected.  I think it is because Cubase doesn't recognize different ports. My solution has been to open an Ensemble instance for each Kontakt 3.5  or whatever instrument I want.  Any suggestions?

Please read the manual. The VST3 plugin supports 32 ports (512 channels) per instance.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 14:20
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1723
BloodyJoe wrote:

Auto connect dosen't work, unfortunately we must reload the plugins in every VEPro instance manually (click on the arrow "load plugin data" it's fast so not that big deal). I'm not using the VSTPro server windows (though they must be running in the background) but I'm loading everything directly from my cubase projects. So I have to reload all VEPro instances manually. Hope that an automatic function will be implented in future versions!

I don't understand you, what do you think does not work?

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 14:41
by Sonomusic3
Joined on Mon, Feb 16 2009, Posts 43

OKay Martin, thanks for clearing that up.  My VST3 version was separated from the other in my VST list and I didn't see it.

Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 14:46
by BloodyJoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 06 2008, Stuttgart, Posts 33

@MS:

For example:

1. I start the VEPro Server, then Cubase with a new project. I load a "Server Interface VST" in that Cubase project in an instrument track. (So I can put many instruments easy in one audio channel)

2. I open the "Server Interface VST" with the "e" button in Cubase and click the connect button.

3. I choose 127.0.0.1 (new) from the list (master instance) or my slave computer (new).

4. I press the "ve" butto on that "Server Interface VST" to open the actual connected VEPro instance.

5. I delete the preexisting VSL Instrument track and right click select "Add VSTi" to add for example Kore2VST to the VEPro instance.

6. I set up the midi in Kore2 and load up some nice samples to get an fat sounding instrument.

7. Back in cubase I compose some nice melody then I save my cubase project and close everything because it is late nigt and I want to get some sleep.

8. Next morning I start the VEPro Server then cubase and load my project from last night. (in cubase only, I leave the VEPro server window white because cubase does the job and puts in the connected VEPro instances automatically!!)

9. Trying to play my melody, but no sound!! So I go to the cubase intruments track "e" button to pull up my connected "Server Interface VST" window. I click on the "ve" button to open my VEPro instance.

10. In that instance there is no plugin (Kore2VST) loaded. I first have to click on the big arrow and select "Load plugin data" to load everything back.

11. After that everything works again and I can continue composing.

Same goes for instances on slave computers but I have to go the the computer that is standing a little bit away and press there "Load plugin data"! Would be nice to control that VEPro slave instances from the main daw. At the moment I have to travel across the room to make some changes on the slave.

I hope you can follow my procedure.

Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 15:01
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1723
BloodyJoe wrote:

8. Next morning I start the VEPro Server then cubase and load my project from last night (in cubase only, I leave the VEPro server window white because cubase does the job and puts in the connected VEPro instances automatically!!)

9. Trying to play my melody, but no sound so I go to the cubase intruments track "e" button to pull up my connected "Server Interface VST" window. I click on the "ve" button to open my VEPro instance

10. In that instance I have to click on the arrow and select "Load plugin data"

If the server is empty, without any instances in it - it will load up as it was saved. Unless the instance was saved preserved - there will be no arrow visible.

BloodyJoe wrote:

Would be nice to control that VEPro slave instances from the main daw. At the moment I have to travel across the room to make some changes on the slave.

I would suggest to use a remote desktop solution.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 15:10
by BloodyJoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 06 2008, Stuttgart, Posts 33
MS wrote:
BloodyJoe wrote:

8. Next morning I start the VEPro Server then cubase and load my project from last night (in cubase only, I leave the VEPro server window white because cubase does the job and puts in the connected VEPro instances automatically!!)

9. Trying to play my melody, but no sound!! So I go to the cubase intruments track "e" button to pull up my connected "Server Interface VST" window. I click on the "ve" button to open my VEPro instance.

10. In that instance there is no plugin (Kore2VST) loaded. I first have to click on the big arrow and select "Load plugin data" to load everything back.

If the server is empty, without any instances in it - it will load up as it was saved. Unless the instance was saved preserved - there will be no arrow visible.

No it won't be loaded as it was saved. In my example the Kore2VST is missing after reloading the cubase project. I first have to go in the VEPro instance and click on that arrow to select "Load plugin data". And no it was not preserved, not by me.

Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 16:24
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1723

The behavior you are describing is no the intended one. Could you please send a report to , include your system specs & software versions. I will have a look at it asap.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 18:00
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
BloodyJoe wrote:

No it won't be loaded as it was saved. In my example the Kore2VST is missing after reloading the cubase project. I first have to go in the VEPro instance and click on that arrow to select "Load plugin data". And no it was not preserved, not by me.

 

 I can't duplicate your repro properly, because i don't have Kore and I don't have any slaves. Sad

However, using Local host and Kontakt everything works as expected and is connected on opening the project, so I think it must either be something about your system, or something about Kore that causes this problem for you.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 20:09
by BloodyJoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 06 2008, Stuttgart, Posts 33
DG wrote:
BloodyJoe wrote:

No it won't be loaded as it was saved. In my example the Kore2VST is missing after reloading the cubase project. I first have to go in the VEPro instance and click on that arrow to select "Load plugin data". And no it was not preserved, not by me.

 

 I can't duplicate your repro properly, because i don't have Kore and I don't have any slaves. Sad

However, using Local host and Kontakt everything works as expected and is connected on opening the project, so I think it must either be something about your system, or something about Kore that causes this problem for you.

DG



Ok found something out. My problem only occours when I choose the VEPro plugin with the mark at the side. When i choose that second VEPro VST below, everything works fine so far. Here is a screenshot (the one with the problem is the marked blue):

Screenshot is taken from cubase when choosing a plugin for an instrument track. Anybody has an idea?

Posted on Sat, Sep 26 2009 20:14
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Ahah. That's a VST3 plugin. The way you're working you probably don't need to use the VST 3 version, as you won't miss any of the extra features.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Sep 27 2009 01:00
by P_C
Joined on Mon, Sep 24 2007, Norway, Posts 154

it happens here as well, been using the Vst3 version too.

Whenever i load up a cubase project, nothing is loaded in VEPRO (well the default template is loaded) and i get a arrow going on for about a minute, but furthermore...the arrow dissapears after a little while, so if im not paying attention or step away from the computer while its loading, nothing gets loaded up with the cubase project, so now i cant even launch a project and go do something else, i have to sit there and press these arrows? If i dont, then i have to reload the cubase project and hit the arrows.

I dont get it...keeping the contents loaded\preserved only really makes sense if you never ever adjust anything inside vepro?

Id like to keep the same template open when possible, but...theres a big chance i will adjust some paramter in one or more of the VSTI`s...and how will i know later..if i did or not, i have to take notes i guess (!)..of which project uses the default template settings or not?

Or always reload the plugin data, so im sure everything plays back correctly? ( by pushing the arrow button every time?)

OR make a habit of never ever adjusting anything in any vst instrument, lol...which doesnt seem very practical..

Hm, maybe im missing somethin ( i usually am) but that seems rather...unpractical.?

But anyway i love VEPRO tho...i really do, i guess there are some adjustements that has to be made from my side for it to work the way it was intended :D

Posted on Sun, Sep 27 2009 11:10
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Pzy-clone wrote:

it happens here as well, been using the Vst3 version too.

Whenever i load up a cubase project, nothing is loaded in VEPRO (well the default template is loaded) and i get a arrow going on for about a minute, but furthermore...the arrow dissapears after a little while, so if im not paying attention or step away from the computer while its loading, nothing gets loaded up with the cubase project, so now i cant even launch a project and go do something else, i have to sit there and press these arrows? If i dont, then i have to reload the cubase project and hit the arrows.

 

Martin says this shouldn't happen, and I can't reproduce it here either. There must be a series of steps that I'm missing. I think that the best thing to do is to contact support directly, so that if they can reproduce it, it can be fixed. if there is no repro then it can't be fixed.

 

Pzy-clone wrote:

I dont get it...keeping the contents loaded\preserved only really makes sense if you never ever adjust anything inside vepro?

Id like to keep the same template open when possible, but...theres a big chance i will adjust some paramter in one or more of the VSTI`s...and how will i know later..if i did or not, i have to take notes i guess (!)..of which project uses the default template settings or not?

Or always reload the plugin data, so im sure everything plays back correctly? ( by pushing the arrow button every time?)

OR make a habit of never ever adjusting anything in any vst instrument, lol...which doesnt seem very practical..

Hm, maybe im missing somethin ( i usually am) but that seems rather...unpractical.?

 

The Preserve feature is one that has been requested for years by VSL users. Already I am loving it. I do exactly as you say; never adjust anything in the template. I don't need to. It works just the way I want it to. If I want to load extra stuff, I'll do that on a project by project basis, but the generally the orchestra is the orchestra, in my template. Big Smile

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
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