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Posted on Sun, Aug 01 2010 19:45
by jeremyroberts
Joined on Thu, Apr 17 2003, New York, NY USA, Posts 282

I had the pleasure of upgrading my cable modem to the fastest available speeds in New York (50Mbs down/5Mbs up) and in the process, had to upgrade my router to accommodate the throughput (just because it says it's a 100Mbs port does not mean you will get the throughput! I learned the hard way!)

part of this process required changing the IP address of the router and the DHCP devices.

What was (internal) 192.168.1.x is now, 192.168.0.x -- which is just fine - until I went to restore older sessions. Even though the dhcp names have not changed, VEpro will not connect to the slaves automatically since this change.

And we have to manually connect each instance. :-(

Just a heads up to anyone who may be playing with their network. Expect some manual work after your upgrade.

PS -- Time Warner "Wideband" is freaking fast. Expensive, but 5Mbs up is something that you will immediately get used to, and your workflow will adjust. Uploading 1.5 gigs of data is something that you can just do now without an overnight involved.

Posted on Sun, Aug 01 2010 20:13
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Can't you just set the IP of each machine to static IP, and make it the same address as it was before?

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Aug 01 2010 21:00
by jeremyroberts
Joined on Thu, Apr 17 2003, New York, NY USA, Posts 282
DG wrote:

Can't you just set the IP of each machine to static IP, and make it the same address as it was before?

And if I don't know the address prior to the router change?

I was using dhcp, simply because it worked. There wasn't really a reason to use static IPs. Ah, but there was!

I think the VE Pro docs should encourage users to use static IPs, if only for this reason. But in most other cases, there is no benefit to giving a device a static IP. There is no discussion of IP addresses or networking in the docs. I know networking is beyond the scope of VE Pro, but if a choice of dynamic vs. static IP results in files not loading automatically in the future, it would have been nice to know.

Another reason to make CERTAIN that your projects are backed up. DO NOT EVER rely on your host as your only place for the project data and parameters.

Posted on Sun, Aug 01 2010 21:20
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Yes, I agree that static IP is really a must when working with VE Pro. I can't remember what it says in the documentation, but I also agree that it should be stressed for exactly the reasons that messed you up.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Aug 01 2010 22:04
by jeremyroberts
Joined on Thu, Apr 17 2003, New York, NY USA, Posts 282
DG wrote:
Yes, I agree that static IP is really a must when working with VE Pro. I can't remember what it says in the documentation,

it does not discuss static or dynamic IP in any way.

There are NO networking discussions in the latest docs.

You would think that a product that depends on successful networking to succeed, there would be some discussion. Just as a DAW should discuss track count and disk allocation and best practices for hard drives (ProTools does), a product dependent on a successful network should at least mention some basics. I have been very lucky in that DHCP has been fine, but today has not been fine -- having to manually restore every instance on 2 slaves x 22 songs. AND then when re-connecting, many of the project loads (viframes) failed, so I had to manually load each project.

VE Pro was not helpful today. Would static IP addressing have prevented this?

Posted on Sun, Aug 01 2010 22:36
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
jeremyroberts wrote:

VE Pro was not helpful today. Would static IP addressing have prevented this?

 

AFAIK, yes.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Aug 02 2010 10:25
by yt020490_13791
Joined on Wed, Apr 20 2005, Posts 40

When I was first setting up VEP I did some tests as to how it recognises the slave and found that it is exclusively by IP. So I have set up all our VEP machines with static IPs.

This has allowed me to create 2 matching systems where, relative to the master machine, the slave in both systems is 192.168.2.2; this means that cues saved on one of the 2 systems, will load, and automatically pair to the appropriate slave instances on the other system. Big Smile

Posted on Mon, Aug 02 2010 12:46
by jeremyroberts
Joined on Thu, Apr 17 2003, New York, NY USA, Posts 282
yt020490_13791 wrote:

When I was first setting up VEP I did some tests as to how it recognises the slave and found that it is exclusively by IP. So I have set up all our VEP machines with static IPs.

This has allowed me to create 2 matching systems where, relative to the master machine, the slave in both systems is 192.168.2.2; this means that cues saved on one of the 2 systems, will load, and automatically pair to the appropriate slave instances on the other system. Big Smile

That is a great suggestion. This was, if I take my protools session to another studio, as long as all IP addresses match, the files will have a chance of opening if all IP addresses match.

I think the VE Pro docs should have 1 paragraph that suggests all machines in a VEPro network use static IP. Even 1 sentence with a suggestion to search this forum would be helpful.

It is NOT VEPro's job to educate the user on networking principles, but it is the role of VEPro documentation to explain that this is an IP based system and if the IP address of the machines change, so will the ability to restore. Even though I consider myself a smart guy when it comes to networking, I failed to understand that it's looking for a static IP -- if the docs had stated, "for best results, set all machines in your network to static IP". Done. This will greatly enhance the user experience.

Posted on Tue, Nov 23 2010 00:54
by kevin_9944
Joined on Tue, Nov 23 2004, Los Angeles, Posts 19

Never having properly understood or set up ranges of or static IPs, after Jeremy pointed this out I went away to do my research. The following article at least pointed me to the fact that I needed to set up the range within my router, an Airport Extreme Base Station (yes, rudimentary stuff).

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=11562585 

I actually connect to the internet using PPPoE, but the settings were similar enough to help me. So I left my range on the "DHCP Beginning Address" (AirPort Utility > Manual Setup > Internet > DHCP) as is, and set the "DHCP Ending Address" to 192.168.100, assuming that I would then set my VE slave machine static IPs to 101, 102 etc

But, I can't follow your suggestions to the letter as both of our rigs, being on a shared network, would be trying to access slave machines with the same static IP.  

So if I assign whatever static IP I want, will I be given the option to find the correct static IP when launching the session? VE Pro is so "clever" it will just reconnect to the machine it wants (ie the slave it was last connected to) before I have the chance to say stop and have it connect somewhere else. Maybe if I understood the VE Pro server better, this might be obvious, so any words of wisdom would be appreciated. Big Smile

[COLOR="Navy"][FONT="Arial Narrow"][SIZE="2"]Pro Tools 9.0.5 | HD3 PCIe | 192 i/o | C|24
Mac Pro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore | 16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini3,1 (late 2009) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068

Pro Tools 9.0.6 | HD3 PCIx | Apogee Rosetta 200 | Magma PE6R4-I
MacPro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore |16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini2,1 (mid 2007) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
Posted on Tue, Nov 23 2010 01:11
by jeremyroberts
Joined on Thu, Apr 17 2003, New York, NY USA, Posts 282

Kevin,

No.

Let me explain a thing or 2 about IP addresses and networking.

Your ROUTER (Airport)  pulls an Ip from your ISP. Then it creates an insulated network - once removed - for ONLY your machines. Typically the IP addresses on your internal network (your LAN) will be in the 192.168.x.x range. For example, your router may be at 192.168.1.1. Your wifi devices may be .100-.120 -- but there is no reason you can't declare your wired machines to be 192.168.1.20; 192.168.1.21, etc --

If you ever change routers, your static IP addresses will always be there same.

Read up on routers.

That's what this thread is about.

Hope this helps.

Posted on Tue, Nov 23 2010 02:01
by kevin_9944
Joined on Tue, Nov 23 2004, Los Angeles, Posts 19

Jeremy, Thanks for the further words, but "No" to what exactly?

I have my insulated network; my DHCP begins at 192.168.1.2 and I set it to end at 192.168.1.100, my static IPs will be at 192.168.1.101 and 192.168.1.102. So I think I'm all good. Gives 99 addresses for the various desktops, wireless devices etc. My static IPs I will then assign from 192.168.1.101 upwards.

But that does't help me with what VE then does with that info. I have two HD3 rigs each with a mac mini farm attached. If I move a PT session from "room 1" to "room 2", the session in "room 2", through the LAN, will still load my VE project on the mac mini in "room 1".

Or are you saying No, I haven't even configured my network correctly yet? Or no, VE Pro will never give me the choice to select which mac mini so I better get it right now? I think that was your original problem when you changed your router, you couldn't de/reselect your slave.

Many thanks,

Kevin

[COLOR="Navy"][FONT="Arial Narrow"][SIZE="2"]Pro Tools 9.0.5 | HD3 PCIe | 192 i/o | C|24
Mac Pro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore | 16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini3,1 (late 2009) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068

Pro Tools 9.0.6 | HD3 PCIx | Apogee Rosetta 200 | Magma PE6R4-I
MacPro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore |16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini2,1 (mid 2007) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
Posted on Tue, Nov 23 2010 03:31
by jeremyroberts
Joined on Thu, Apr 17 2003, New York, NY USA, Posts 282

Kevin,

As long as all your host machines and slaves have static IPs your'e fine.

Slave #1 will always be slave #1 as long as it's 192.168.1.103 -- regardless of where it is physically. In fact, all of your slave machines can be in a machine room.

The point of this thread is that VE Pro looks to slaves by IP -- so if the IP changes, it will forget -- and it's a good practice to set a satic IP and do everything possible to never change it.

In fact, I just bought a new router and the default gateway IP was 192.168.0.1, but ALL of my machines are on the 192.168.1.x subnet, so I simply changed the router, and we're happy.

I hope this helps.

J

PS -- I doubt that your airport has true gigabit throughput at the switch. And it definitely does not support jumbo frames. Probably worth investing in a dedicated gigabit switch and Cat6 wire.

Posted on Tue, Nov 23 2010 03:46
by jeremyroberts
Joined on Thu, Apr 17 2003, New York, NY USA, Posts 282

kevin_9944 wrote:

But that does't help me with what VE then does with that info. I have two HD3 rigs each with a mac mini farm attached. If I move a PT session from "room 1" to "room 2", the session in "room 2", through the LAN, will still load my VE project on the mac mini in "room 1".

In this situation, yes, that doesn't help you. And if you open the PT session in room 2, it will open the slave in room 1.

For this, you need to work a bit differently. Since you DO NOT want the PT sessions to restore to the same slave. Hmm... I'm too tired to think this one through... maybe someone who has more brain power can chime in. I'll think about this and reply tomorrow.

Posted on Tue, Nov 23 2010 06:42
by kevin_9944
Joined on Tue, Nov 23 2004, Los Angeles, Posts 19

Jeremy,

jeremyroberts wrote:
PS -- I doubt that your airport has true gigabit throughput at the switch. And it definitely does not support jumbo frames. Probably worth investing in a dedicated gigabit switch and Cat6 wire.

One of the rigs is sort of on it's own dedicated switch, but a C|24 sort of messes with that. But good points to be aware of, although our problem isn't speed, that will become a factor soon enough. I had already done some research on jumbo frames and it was only a few months after we pulled Cat5e that someone pointed out that we should have pulled Cat6. I think Cat7 is in my future!! 

[COLOR="Navy"][FONT="Arial Narrow"][SIZE="2"]Pro Tools 9.0.5 | HD3 PCIe | 192 i/o | C|24
Mac Pro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore | 16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini3,1 (late 2009) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068

Pro Tools 9.0.6 | HD3 PCIx | Apogee Rosetta 200 | Magma PE6R4-I
MacPro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore |16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini2,1 (mid 2007) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
Posted on Tue, Nov 23 2010 06:58
by kevin_9944
Joined on Tue, Nov 23 2004, Los Angeles, Posts 19
jeremyroberts wrote:

In this situation, yes, that doesn't help you. And if you open the PT session in room 2, it will open the slave in room 1.

For this, you need to work a bit differently. Since you DO NOT want the PT sessions to restore to the same slave. Hmm... I'm too tired to think this one through... maybe someone who has more brain power can chime in. I'll think about this and reply tomorrow.

Good to at least know I'm not missing the patently obvious. I want to be able to pick the machine on which I want to load the session, not have it picked for me. As long as I have my projects saved, I should be able to point my VE Pro rtas at the proper server and connect, or so my thinking goes. I've read yours and others discussions on the DUC about decoupling/preserving, but it's still hurting my head. Perhaps there is some magic in there that reveals a proper level of control.

This question is just as relevant for someone who has a set of machines and wants to layback at an outside facility. How do they reconnect their farms over a strange LAN? Would they have to bring their router with them so there was no mess? Many thanks for your thoughts so far.

[COLOR="Navy"][FONT="Arial Narrow"][SIZE="2"]Pro Tools 9.0.5 | HD3 PCIe | 192 i/o | C|24
Mac Pro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore | 16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini3,1 (late 2009) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068

Pro Tools 9.0.6 | HD3 PCIx | Apogee Rosetta 200 | Magma PE6R4-I
MacPro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore |16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini2,1 (mid 2007) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
Posted on Fri, Dec 10 2010 05:22
by kevin_9944
Joined on Tue, Nov 23 2004, Los Angeles, Posts 19

So after some investigation and trial and error, the work around I've found is to set up an identity in "Mac OS > System Preferences > Network" for ethernet "OFF". Before I load a foreign session (ie one that was not created on this computer pairing), I switch the ethernet off (better than yanking the cable, as that puts the mac in a tail spin) and then load the session. The plug in can't find anything, but the session still loads. Then I switch ethernet back on in the preferences and, after waiting for the computer to populate on the LAN, clicking on the plug in, pulls up a list of whatever machines (servers) are on the network. I can then chose which to connect to.

Perhaps this brings us back to your original question, Jeremy. If you haven't set up static IPs, if you switch your ethernet off before you load a session, does this routine then solve your problem too, by your being able to then manually select your slave/server?

I always save both a viframe (project) and an mframe (whatever an mframe is) before closing each session in case something can't remember what it's supposed to be doing.

K

[COLOR="Navy"][FONT="Arial Narrow"][SIZE="2"]Pro Tools 9.0.5 | HD3 PCIe | 192 i/o | C|24
Mac Pro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore | 16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini3,1 (late 2009) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068

Pro Tools 9.0.6 | HD3 PCIx | Apogee Rosetta 200 | Magma PE6R4-I
MacPro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore |16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini2,1 (mid 2007) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
Posted on Fri, Dec 10 2010 13:27
by jeremyroberts
Joined on Thu, Apr 17 2003, New York, NY USA, Posts 282

I have no reason to switch ethernet off. That's an ugly workaround.

I found that for me, static IP solved all issues.

Another technique is to us the decouple feature -- so that I can simply load whatever viframe that need --

But I urge anyone reading this to set all machines on the network to static, so VE Pro will remember the machines.

Posted on Fri, Dec 10 2010 19:08
by kevin_9944
Joined on Tue, Nov 23 2004, Los Angeles, Posts 19
jeremyroberts wrote:
But I urge anyone reading this to set all machines on the network to static, so VE Pro will remember the machines.

I am moving to static IPs, but until I fully make the transition, this ugly kludge is the best I've come up with.

[COLOR="Navy"][FONT="Arial Narrow"][SIZE="2"]Pro Tools 9.0.5 | HD3 PCIe | 192 i/o | C|24
Mac Pro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore | 16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini3,1 (late 2009) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068

Pro Tools 9.0.6 | HD3 PCIx | Apogee Rosetta 200 | Magma PE6R4-I
MacPro5,1 (mid 2010) Westmere 3.33 GHz Hexacore |16gb ram | OS X 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068
MacMini2,1 (mid 2007) Core 2 Duo | 4gb ram | 10.7.3 | VEPro 5.0.10068[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
Posted on Sat, Jun 16 2012 04:05
by AudioPC
Joined on Thu, Jun 14 2012, Posts 2
Hi, is still the same primitive static IP address a must for VE Pro 5?

Can't it use just the hostname (the computer name declared to the network) as any modern piece of software?

Thanks!
Posted on Sun, Jun 17 2012 22:14
by frazz
Joined on Mon, Dec 12 2011, Posts 52

This is the kind of thing I REALLY want to know about.

I would love to see some "best practice" information.

So you get better performace with static IP address?

Better connection?

Jumbo frames are better?

I have a Mac (Logic) and a PC (Win7+VEP5)

I have a Netgear gigabit switch between them.

What are the best settings on both sides?

I have the Mac on Automatic/Using DHCP.

I have the PC to Obtain an IP address automatically.

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