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Humanize Feature Requests
Last post Tue, Mar 08 2011 by SJSF, 7 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Mar 06 2011 21:45
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

It would be very useful if Humanize included the ability to specify that certain notes (either in general or within a certain context) be out of tune. Humanize is more of a randomizer which is great, but at the same time... as a trumpet player sometimes going up to a rather high C will first be slightly under pitch, then the performer corrects after the initial pitch problem.

1) I would like the ability to specify certain notes to get a certain preset (rise to tune, etc)

2) I would like the ability to specify some degree of context... 'the first time a c is played, rise to pitch, then have it default back to the other humanize repititions. (perhaps if the note reaches x velocity, then it will trigger a specific humanize preset for that single note. 

I realize that I can always do this with a pitch controller myself but if humanize could do this then it could be applied to many different instruments and save a lot of time.

-Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Mon, Mar 07 2011 03:19
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1615

So, upgrade to VI Pro, which has exactly that.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Mon, Mar 07 2011 03:59
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

I already have VI Pro, which does not have these features. As I stated, the humanize function currently is more of a randomizer, but I would like some more customization features which I listed.

Being out of perfect tune on every note is one thing, but sometimes certain specific notes are generally flat when performed a certain way, like a blaring high trumpet note or a violin's "g-string".

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Tue, Mar 08 2011 05:44
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1615
MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Tue, Mar 08 2011 13:54
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

I'm not trying to argue with you so much as if anyone at VSL ever looked at this request I would want my point made clear and perhaps it isn't yet.

The video does not address my request. I have watched this
tutorial several times and read the manual. Humanize can randomize beautifully
and I can use the tuning graph scaler with a midi controller and adjust the intonation this way; this is a great and necessary feature,
but not what I requested. I am saying that Humanize if taking a more accurate
approach should allow for a degree of randomization with some 'not-so-random'
features. Nowhere in Humanize can I specify that a C5 or C6 should use the 'rise
to tune' preset, I would have to use the preset for the trumpet overall, which
I don't want to do as this would hardly be appropriate to all notes. Certain
pitches, or pitch ranges on certain instruments are generally out of tune with a pattern... I have now taken the time to Google some studies of this.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GmjsPXhfAskJ:spot.colorado.edu/~miksza/Teaching%2520Instrumental%2520Music/Summaries%2520of%2520Specific%2520Instrument%2520IntonationTendencies.doc+instrument+intonation+tendencies&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESixgCa6aswXqg7V9hGdOPq4BcOFA22LU7405k7GGnMN6sTLeXaehHxuMjnZedgMO0Mfb8Ecr1EgAK7mxITLOM0V4Iyogfj9ivXYBid1HqMnY7QuACsvb33epRl3fsyCfFE-52ts&sig=AHIEtbQE59yoZGo_P3prIJgOB_vei3NYMg&pli=1

Flute

Intonation:

• Range – high range of flute and especially piccolo create problems of their own considering that smaller faults will be noticeable

• Low register – generally flat

• Middle register – generally OK

• High register – generally sharp

• Soft playing – tends to be flat, lips slightly stretched to raise pitch

• Loud playing – tends to be sharp, open/relax throat, lips, and jaw

• Diminuendo – tends to end sharp

 

-- I play the trumpet, clarinet, piano, saxophones, and a few non traditionals... this
isn't the largest repertoire but it certainly is enough to know that each instrument has specific tendencies.
 Most trumpet players use valve
positions (or fingerings) that make certain notes generally sharp, etc. Pitch
also has to due with your lip position on the trumpet, on higher notes a great
player will be prepared for the pitch as he approaches the note... but even in
some of the best recordings I hear beautiful piccolo trumpet parts with great intonation, except for a few high C's and so on.

And finally, these tendencies are true of many instruments and
there is a pattern to each instrument. humanize merely randomizes but doesn't
allow any user-specifiable patterns for certain pitches or ranges, for specific instruments.

This may
seem like a lot to ask of VSL, but if you think about my request at its core...
this is vital to the proper intonation of a performance as it would enable me
to automatically automate an accurate replica of each instrument, while I now
cannot do this automatically... and as it is far to tedious to adjust an entire
performance with thousands of notes, it is necessary to achieve the effect
overall, so without this feature there is simply no having this accurate of a
performance, for now we only have a random performance (which is great- just
not how actual instrument performance works). Hopefully I am not overly
redundant, but I'm pretty sure I've made the case for this feature request quite thoroughly.

 

-Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Tue, Mar 08 2011 14:17
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4607

Hi Sean,

thanks for your input.

First I'd like to add that our humanize features are not per se random. For me random means that you don't have full control what result you'd get. Starting any sequenze from the same start point will always offer you exactly the same output result.

If you need specific humamize behaviour it's strongly depending on your personal setup.

Here are some hints:

- combining humanizing, especially the detuning feauters with the "interval map" controller could offer a very specific performance.

for example, you don't want a detuning when notes on the same pitches are performed, and also not for down interval steps,  just for upward intervals. This can be achieved using dedicated or even no humanizing tuning presets on the cells which are triggered for starting notes and the down intervalls.

- setting up dedicated curves for specific instruments. The factory presets are a good overall starting point, but it's always an improvement to draw your tuning curves you'd like to see, especially for dedicated instruments

- very often you won't need 12 different variations in the humanize setup area, set the amount of variations you really need

- combine  dedicated controllers to the "tune" slider, for example if you are using velocity crossfade active for a dedictaed instrrument, you could use velocity input for this slider, that means a hard keystroke at velocity 127 would cause higher detuning amount  a soft keystroke more or less no detuning,

Refering to your request, play with this setup the larger interval steps with a higher velocity

if you don't use velicoty crossfade, you'd have to perform this slider manually.

Hope these suggestions are helpful.

best

Herb

Posted on Tue, Mar 08 2011 21:40
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

Hello Herb,

Thanks a million for the great solutions! I am in debt to you as every suggestion together does more than I even requested. V-crossfade is the only way to go, so the 'velocity tuner' is perfect for me.

My VSL is becoming ever more powerful!

-Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
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