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Glissandi in Harps missing some scales or?
Last post Thu, May 21 2015 by Guy Bacos, 14 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Mar 07 2015 11:56
by Stig Christensen
Joined on Fri, Mar 18 2005, Copenhagen, Posts 111

Hi

I want to create a simple Harp glissando of a E7 major scale. When I try to figure out which patch to use I found that the only Glissandi Major Scale patch contains 5 (!) keys: B, C#, E, F#, G#, all of them in 3 speed variation and different ranges.

So what are you going to do if you want to create a harp glissando over a C7 scale?

Musicmind (Mind the Music!)
Mac Pro 6.1 64Gb, Mac Pro 12 48Gb, Mac Pro 8 24Gb, Mac Pro 4 12Gb, MacBookPro, Apollo interface, Universal Audio (4 cards), Waves 9, NI Komplete 9, VSL, EWQL Platinum, BFD3, Superior, Arturia, Sound Toys, Euphonix MC Control + Mix, Neumann mics, DynAudio, Yamaha + Adam monitors, a lot of outboard AND Steinway Concert Grand A ;-)
Tags: harp
Posted on Sat, Mar 07 2015 13:58
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

E7 is not a scale. It's a Dominant 7th arpeggio. All the major scales can be found under 02 GLISSANDI, 01 Major Slow Speed or 02 Major Medium Speed etc.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Tue, Apr 28 2015 10:10
by Stig Christensen
Joined on Fri, Mar 18 2005, Copenhagen, Posts 111

Hi

Sorry Professor! I always find it difficult to react answers like the one you gave me. Take into consider that english is NOT my first language I hope I can make my self clear. By the term E7 major scale I meant a E Dominant scale, aka the tones of the A major scale (3 sharps), but PLAYED from an E!

That is not possible is it?

Musicmind (Mind the Music!)
Mac Pro 6.1 64Gb, Mac Pro 12 48Gb, Mac Pro 8 24Gb, Mac Pro 4 12Gb, MacBookPro, Apollo interface, Universal Audio (4 cards), Waves 9, NI Komplete 9, VSL, EWQL Platinum, BFD3, Superior, Arturia, Sound Toys, Euphonix MC Control + Mix, Neumann mics, DynAudio, Yamaha + Adam monitors, a lot of outboard AND Steinway Concert Grand A ;-)
Posted on Fri, May 01 2015 17:50
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 717

Hi Stig,

Have you tried playing the glissando as the actual notes you want. Then you can select the speed that works for you and the respective volume of each and every note. If you extend the note length so that there is a long overlap very realist results can be achieved and of course you are not limited by the presets keys.

Julian

Posted on Sat, May 02 2015 13:25
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Originally Posted by: Stig Christensen Go to Quoted Post

Hi

Sorry Professor! I always find it difficult to react answers like the one you gave me. Take into consider that english is NOT my first language I hope I can make my self clear. By the term E7 major scale I meant a E Dominant scale, aka the tones of the A major scale (3 sharps), but PLAYED from an E!

That is not possible is it?

Sorry for not realising that you weren't a native English speaker. As you have already seen, unless the nomenclature is correct, it is very difficult to get the right answer. 

So, my understanding is that you want an A major scale, but want to be able to control the start and end notes. Unfortunately, whilst there are a selection of start and end notes, you have to use whatever was recorded, and if your current need was not recorded, it won't be there. There certainly is a scale of A played from an E, but it all depends on what you want the top note to be, as to whether or not it will be of any use to you.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, May 04 2015 08:35
by Stig Christensen
Joined on Fri, Mar 18 2005, Copenhagen, Posts 111

Hi

I think I will record it manually as you suggest.

Thanks!

Musicmind (Mind the Music!)
Mac Pro 6.1 64Gb, Mac Pro 12 48Gb, Mac Pro 8 24Gb, Mac Pro 4 12Gb, MacBookPro, Apollo interface, Universal Audio (4 cards), Waves 9, NI Komplete 9, VSL, EWQL Platinum, BFD3, Superior, Arturia, Sound Toys, Euphonix MC Control + Mix, Neumann mics, DynAudio, Yamaha + Adam monitors, a lot of outboard AND Steinway Concert Grand A ;-)
Posted on Tue, May 05 2015 00:57
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1978

The most natural sound is of course the recorded scales, but if one is not available, I simply gliss up/down the kewboard with my finger nail in a timely fashion (approx.) and then on the sequencer piano roll, change the accidentals. For example, If you want a C pentatonic scale, you will gliss these notes: c-d-e-f-g-a-b-c-d-e etc After changing a few notes places you will get something like this: c-d-f-f-g-a-c-c-d-f-f-g etc the repeated notes give a more realistic effect, a more familiar harp sound.

Posted on Tue, May 05 2015 12:20
by Stig Christensen
Joined on Fri, Mar 18 2005, Copenhagen, Posts 111

Hi Guy

I will do that. I think the Harpe from VSL is very useful and easy to work with, besides the small quirks I have consulted the forum about.

I'm very impressed with your work for VSL, and find it inspiring in my efforts to be more fluent in my work with all those big libraries.

I'm interested in knowing what DAW you are using?

Musicmind (Mind the Music!)
Mac Pro 6.1 64Gb, Mac Pro 12 48Gb, Mac Pro 8 24Gb, Mac Pro 4 12Gb, MacBookPro, Apollo interface, Universal Audio (4 cards), Waves 9, NI Komplete 9, VSL, EWQL Platinum, BFD3, Superior, Arturia, Sound Toys, Euphonix MC Control + Mix, Neumann mics, DynAudio, Yamaha + Adam monitors, a lot of outboard AND Steinway Concert Grand A ;-)
Posted on Mon, May 11 2015 23:29
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1978

I use Logic Pro X.

 

This is a recent demo for harp 2 I did with many glissandos done the way I described in the previous post:

 

Leisure Sailing (harp 2)

Posted on Thu, May 14 2015 22:54
by Target
Joined on Tue, Mar 17 2015, Finland, Posts 27

Originally Posted by: Guy Bacos Go to Quoted Post

I use Logic Pro X.

 This is a recent demo for harp 2 I did with many glissandos done the way I described in the previous post:

 Leisure Sailing (harp 2)

Oh my!

Thank you very much :)

What strings?

And what are you using for harp scale/run/gliss switching - Vienna XY mod/pitch, keyswitches, AM pro... please tell... very interesting in finding a good workflow for the harp gliss/runs...?

rMBP 15" 2.2 i7 16gb ext. 2x USB3 850EVO 10.10.5
MP 1,1 2.66 32gb 10.7.5
Logic X 10.10.2. VEPro5 5413888. Kontakt 5, Play 4, Omni 1
...VMK76, MPD232 Asus 4k, OWC TB2 dock:)
Posted on Fri, May 15 2015 01:30
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5405

The best way to do harp glissandi that are not already recorded is to reproduce exactly what the harp would actually sound, based upon the diatonic scales altered by the pedals.  Guy is right to note that you should have doubled notes on various pitches for maximum realism.  On my symphony recording  -

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/WilliamKersten1

there were many glissandi that were not pre-recorded, and so I created a basic note pattern that was totally realistic for what pitches the harp could actually set with the pedals.  This is impossible to play on a keyboard live, and so I entered it in a very fast step notation approximating what the glissando speed would be.  This usually worked out to be 64th notes with various doubled notes based on which pedal setup was being used, though you might use other note values depending on how fast the temp is.  Adding a small amount of humanize in both velocity and timing also helps.  This approach works so well it sounds as good as the pre-recorded glissandi and is not hard to do at all, as long as you use what a harpist could actually play.  This is determined basically by playing the diatonic C scale or raising or lowering it a half step.    

Posted on Fri, May 15 2015 22:42
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1978

Originally Posted by: Target Go to Quoted Post

What strings?

 

Dimension strings, occasionally layered with a touch of solo strings.

Posted on Mon, May 18 2015 10:25
by Target
Joined on Tue, Mar 17 2015, Finland, Posts 27

Originally Posted by: Guy Bacos Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Target Go to Quoted Post

What strings?

 

Dimension strings, occasionally layered with a touch of solo strings.

Thanks. What about your workflow - are you manually drawing keyswitch notes... or?

rMBP 15" 2.2 i7 16gb ext. 2x USB3 850EVO 10.10.5
MP 1,1 2.66 32gb 10.7.5
Logic X 10.10.2. VEPro5 5413888. Kontakt 5, Play 4, Omni 1
...VMK76, MPD232 Asus 4k, OWC TB2 dock:)
Posted on Thu, May 21 2015 16:24
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1978

Sure.

What other option were you thinking about? 

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