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Using VSL with Finale 2012 newbie
Last post Wed, Sep 16 2015 by CoffeeCat Productions, 11 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Sep 14 2015 19:17
by CoffeeCat Productions
Joined on Wed, Sep 02 2015, Posts 8

Want to play and record my Finale 2012 orchestra scores thru VSL. Having trouble getting channels from Finale score manager to correspond to channels and their instruments in Vienna Ensemble. Also, haven't found the basics of VSL anywhere. Haven't answered questions like: Why is my line for the basses in Finale always playing the tympani. even though I try to adjust channels? Do you add 1 to all channel numbers because in VSL channel no 1 is always the overall bus? How do you arrive at the view shown in their video demos, where you have all the tracks in the middle of the page?  Where in VSL Ensemble do you begin to change the switching of articulations from manual real time to automatic human playback of notations in Finale?

Help much appreciated! 

Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 01:16
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Edmonton, Posts 257

Hi CoffeeCat Productions,

   I would suggest using this file:





Finale 2009 – 2014: Keyswitch Dump for all VSL libraries
20.9 KB
2013-11-07 06:52


You haven't specified if you have Vienna Special Editions (Vol 1-4) or the Full Libraries. If you own the Special editions, then this file should do the trick.





Finale 2014: Human Playback Preferences for Special Edition Vol 1–4, v. 1.0
83.3 KB
2014-03-08 16:26


 Both files are in your MyVsl folder under the Notation related tab.

Hope it helps,

Best,

B

Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 02:51
by CoffeeCat Productions
Joined on Wed, Sep 02 2015, Posts 8

Thanks for your reply. I've used that file for special editions and it's working well.

I'm still bewildered over how to get channels in Finale to correspond to channels in VSL Ensemble. Have basic questions like - why are there two ways to create channels - VSL Pro channels, and VSL "new instrument" channels that seem to have different properties. With the latter it seem the libraries only show articulations to bring into the channel.

Some channels in Finale are playing more than one channel in VSL Ens. Is that because the "inputs" in the VSL channels are not set to the channels coming from Finale - instead they say "all".  

Sometimes I solo a channel, see it both programs as being solo, with different channel nos. It's all pretty crazy right now.

Thanks again....

WY

Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 05:42
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Edmonton, Posts 257

Hi again,

     I am using Finale 2014d in combination with VE and VI both pro. However, I do not remember if 2012 has already incorporated score manager. Anyway, you have to match the channels from Finale mixer with the ones from Vienna Ensemble. Keep in mind that each instrument has to be assigned to one midi channel ( the same both in Finale and VE). Sometimes the assignment is done corectly and automatically ( usually for the first instruments), but after loading more instruments you need to change and match the midi channel number manually for both sequencer and notation program.

   Please double check the VE instrument midi channel assigned with the one that is assigned by the Finale Mixer ( if you use a template, check if the name and number of the channel from Finale mixer, coresponds to the midi channel and the instrument of your choice from VE) ..that, if I rememeber corectly should solve your problem.

"Have basic questions like - why are there two ways to create channels - VSL Pro channels, and VSL "new instrument" channels that seem to have different properties. With the latter it seem the libraries only show articulations to bring into the channel."

If I understood corectly what you're question is, it might be that in VE pro ( for example) one way is specially created for Vienna Instruments , and other for various plug ins , such as Kontakt or UVI , and finally the third way is to add another bus channel...whatever.. The last two is not for your setup though, if you want to have the rendition done only by VSL. I suspect that you have the VIenna Ensemble not the pro. I  do not recall the interface, but that might be something related to using Vienna Instrument Pro and/ the regular one or calling other plug in..I really do not remember well the interface to point you into the right direction.. But I think I am close..:)

All best

Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 06:53
by CoffeeCat Productions
Joined on Wed, Sep 02 2015, Posts 8

Thank you again for your in depth reply.

I should have mentioned from the start what I have, which is Vienna Instruments, Vienna Instruments Pro, with SE Vol 1 Strings, SE Vol 1 brass, SE Vol 1Woodwinds,  SE vol 1 Percussion, and Appasionata strings.  Finale 2012 does have score manager.

I wondered the same: maybe the "new channel VSI Pro", and the "new channel VSI" at the lower left of the Vienna Ensemble window do import different aspects from the libraries, with the first importing the basic patches, and the second importing articulations - which is what seems apparent. (It's crazy that they don't tell you what these twp different channel set ups are for...)

It also seems that each articulation loads to one channel each.  I am now wondering whether you load , say 10 string articulations into one bank, which then somehow goes into one channel dedicated to one string instrument.

I am trying to dialogue with VSI help about this but haven't heard back yet.

Thanks again,

WY

Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 08:24
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3047

Hello WY!

The buttons in the lower left of Vienna Ensemble simply add empty instruments.
"Add VI Pro" adds an empty Vienna Instruments Pro instance and "Add Instrument" adds an empty Vienna Instruments instance. The articulations have to be added afterwards. This can be done by loading a preset or a matrix or manually by adding patches to the empty matrix. As you have purchased Vienna Instruments Pro, I would normally use the "Add VI Pro" button.

The MIDI channels in Vienna Ensemble can be set up above the instruments in the instrument view or anytime in the channel strip at the left. Finale supports only one MIDI port. So you can leave the MIDI port at "All" (-Omni-) or set it to 1. The MIDI channels have to be set up with the same numbers as in the Finale Score Manager.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 17:53
by CoffeeCat Productions
Joined on Wed, Sep 02 2015, Posts 8

Thank you - that will help.

I am still having trouble with getting Finale 2012 channels to correspond with channels in VE. For example, I will "solo" an instrument in Finale score manger, play back connected to Vienna ensemble, and it plays the same instrument, but on a different channel. What seems to be happening is that Vienna Ensemble automatically numbers its channels according to an order from top down in Finale score manager. Thus the fourth channel from the top in Finale will always be number four in VE, no matter what channel I "say" it is in Finale. Could that be true?

Another problem, the playback behaves differently when all the Finale score manager channels are playing. My solo violin channel plays both orchestral violins and tympani - the tympani being "layer 2" of the solo violin in Finale.

Finale recommends assigning one instrument per channel. (Did you say that all these come out through 1 midi channel exporting from Finale? So I should say "all" in each  VE channel?)

Sometimes I play the whole score from Finale, and it comes out with only two instruments assigned to all the VE channels, even though I have a separate channel for every instrument, both in Finale and VE.

Perhaps the trouble is the way I am creating the VE channels and their instruments.  I am not using any preset, purposely. When I load an instrument to a channel I drag it from the library box to the center where the matrix appears - is that right? Then the instrument also appears in the preset box at the left . It seems you can't alter the matrix of articuations once it is in the middle.

Thanks for your help!

WY

Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 18:25
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3047

Vienna Ensemble doesn't set channel numbers  according to other software. It seems to me that you still have a mismatch in channel numbers, but it's hard to say without seeing what you see. Screenshots might help.

I didn't say that all instruments come out through 1 MIDI channel. I have written that Finale can only use one MIDI port. That's something different. One MIDI port has 16 MIDI channels. So you can leave the MIDI port at "All" (-Omni-) or set it to 1. The MIDI channels have to be set up with the same numbers as in the Finale Score Manager.

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 18:36
by CoffeeCat Productions
Joined on Wed, Sep 02 2015, Posts 8

This what I have been doing all along, but when I match the Finale 2012 channel number to the VE channel number, which number in VE should I use? - the channel number in the black part of the module, far left, or the number of the VSL Pro Patch given in the while box next to it? The number of the channel in the black module changes according to the position of the channel in the list.

I see about using screen shots.

Thank you,

WY

Posted on Tue, Sep 15 2015 19:15
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires. MA USA, Posts 899

The MIDI Port and Channel selections are the ones that say "All" by defulat

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.0.2
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Wed, Sep 16 2015 21:04
by CoffeeCat Productions
Joined on Wed, Sep 02 2015, Posts 8

Here is a screen shot of the first problem - I am asked by the Score manager in Finale to edit Vienna Ensemble, in red letters. This doesn't go away in the Score Mangaer after I click on it and bring up a box in VE and select preferences, etc.

WY

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