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Bb clarinet problem: legato transitions and release samples
Last post Sat, Feb 27 2016 by mat123, 5 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Feb 25 2016 23:15
by mat123
Joined on Wed, Jun 24 2015, Posts 31

Hi everybody,

after some work with the Bb clarinet, I must say that I am really impressed by the variety of samples (full version) and the possibilities of musical expression they offer.

However, to my eyes (ears), there's a big problem: My impression is that the Bb clarinet has been recorded in a rather small room with audible reflections. Of course, they are not always audible, but I find them quite annoying (sorry, I chose to be honest) when they are, e.g. at the end of staccato notes and, particularly, during the transition of performance legato. The latter is a real problem for me, because performance legato is supposed to be the work horse...

Adding reverb doesn't really help, it sounds quite strange to have both the ambiance of a concert hall and reflections from a small room. I also tried mono downmix, but this doesn't help either.

I still hope I am doing something wrong, because in the demos available online, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

Thanks for your advice/opinions

Matthias

[EDIT] I just changed the title, because I am becoming sceptical about my first interpretation (recorded ambiance), it may also be a problem of crossfading and/or release samples. I think I have to add some audio examples but that will take some time.

Posted on Fri, Feb 26 2016 01:23
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

hmm....  

I use the Bb clarinet quite a bit in my work and I haven't noticed it.  Could you tell us exactly which articulations (samples) you are talking about.  Is it just specific velocity layers or all of them?


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Fri, Feb 26 2016 08:03
by mat123
Joined on Wed, Jun 24 2015, Posts 31

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

hmm....  

I use the Bb clarinet quite a bit in my work and I haven't noticed it.  Could you tell us exactly which articulations (samples) you are talking about.  Is it just specific velocity layers or all of them?

 

For performance legato, it is most obvious at mf or f (i.e. velocity > 55) and jumps (e.g. from e4 to a3).

Posted on Sat, Feb 27 2016 20:16
by MassMover
Joined on Mon, Sep 29 2008, Posts 236

Maybe something I just wrote about in another thread might be of relevance:

In my understanding (and also my perception) the perf_leg_fast patches only consist of individual transition samples which then are crossfaded into the regular perf_leg samples, thatswhy when played at slower tempos the fast legatos sometimes do not sound convincing, as the transition into the longer part of the sample is not very seamless. This is more audible in solo instruments.

Posted on Sat, Feb 27 2016 22:00
by mat123
Joined on Wed, Jun 24 2015, Posts 31

thanks MassMover, all I can say is that I haven't used fast legato so far. I currently try to resolve my issues with the vsl support team, I think there is definitely something wrong with the way the release samples and the transitions of the legato samples are handeled, at least on my workstation. A simple example is a short legato note played at velocity 89. At least on my computer, the volume of the note itself is still very close to mf (mf: velocity 56 to 88, f: velocity 89 to 127) while the release sample seems to be the same as that of velocity 127. In other words: the release sample starts louder than the note itself, which on first hearing, I misinterpreted as a sort of reflection in a small recording room.

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