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Articulation Insanity - Studio One
Last post Fri, May 25 2018 by hodshonf, 20 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Mar 21 2016 01:15
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

Hey eveyrone,

 

Any Studio One users here with any decent solutions to articulation management in Studio One?

 

Compared to Cubase, I'm finding nearly everything about Studio One 3.2 better... except for this. The sketchpad, arranger, UI scaling, and project-oriented design were almost enough to make me get me over the fence. But 1200 tracks in a project? Yeah, my brain isn't going to do that one.

 

Key labels aren't nearly enough either. For one, they are far below the actual note data I'm editing. It's almost as bad as not having labels. Currently, I use Expression Maps to output different midi channel and cc data along with articulation changes. Labels obviously don't ouput any additional data. So I'm out of options unless anyone else has any solutions.

 

Thanks!

-Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Mon, Mar 21 2016 09:53
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Cologne, Posts 245

 

Hi Sean,

I show how I do it, I use the Pianoroll for labeling Articulation, for Instance in Vienna Instruments C0 is in Pianorolleditor a C-1. First click on the "Drumicon" and then click on the "Setupicon" and there you can name and label Articulations that then appear in the Pianoroll.

cheers

Markus

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Posted on Mon, Mar 21 2016 16:43
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

Markus,

Thanks, but that won't accomplish what I'm after. I mentioned in my post (although I was a bit veiled) that labels simply aren't enough.

 

1 - My articulations are on different midi channels. This accomplishes a few things that a single midi channel can't do.

a) Midi cc data doesn't overlap. This allows for volume curves per articulation, for more realism. It applies to both wet and dry samples, but for wet it is much more obvious a benefit.

b) My Expression Maps have other midi data than keyswitches alone. Maps send articulation-based program & cc data, not just a keyswitch.

 

2 - The editing isn't in-line. Scroll up, scroll down, scroll up, scroll down. It's not as good for workflow as Cubase Expression Maps are. I can't use something that slows me down that much.

 

All in all, Expression Maps are a true "articulation engine" which allow for robust usage of multi-articulation instruments, as well as simplicity of usage. Given how many users are using orchestral samples these days, I am surprized so many DAW's are neglecting articulation management. Every DAW I can find has a forum post asking for it and 3 DAW's even have copy-cat work-arounds people have made. They are just very limited and don't accomplish enough to be worth while.

 

I appreciate the attempt to help, considerably. I just need a something different. The most important needs are midi channels (not neccesarily cc data) and better editing.

 

Thanks

-Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Mon, Mar 21 2016 16:54
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

Also...

To explain why the editing is so important to me... Unlike those who play everything in, I'm one who programs it in. It's like my manuscript paper.

 

I'm certainly capable of playing it in. I grew up improv composing a great deal. But...

1) I insist it's sloppier, despite no one seeming to believe me. ;) The physics of pulling and pushing a string vs a hammer are different. It responds different. As a trumpet player, I know for a fact that tripple tonguing is done faster than my keyboard action will even allow for.

2) There are times to simply play it at the piano. There are other times you simply want manuscript so you can be a bit more methodical. Both methods of input have value (they both obviously exist for a reason). But I rely on the piano roll more than I rely on my MIDI controller.

3) playing rapid articulations quickly is... well it's not good. It's not the same as playing the piano... especially when different libraries have different kinds of articulations, and certainly different ways of mapping them.

 

Those are a large part of explaining why I work the way I do, in case it helps for anyone to consider.

 

Although Presonus Studio One is very impressive. It just doesn't manage articulations nearly as well as Cubase. Hopefully they will make an attempt to do so, and potentially even outdo Steinberg a bit at it. ;)

 

Thanks,

Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Mon, Mar 21 2016 21:43
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Cologne, Posts 245

mhm I saw some Tutorials on Expression Maps, those are premade Maps and you have to set a Keyswitch. And what If you need a Articulation that is not mapped? Too complicated for Myself, because I want to know exactly what a Articulation does to the Piece, so I have to pick this by Hand not a Map

The only Thing I miss in Studio One is a integrated Notation Editor, that will be the major Task, A Symphony between Notation Editor and DAW.

cheers

Posted on Tue, Mar 22 2016 04:27
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

Originally Posted by: mw design Go to Quoted Post

mhm I saw some Tutorials on Expression Maps, those are premade Maps and you have to set a Keyswitch. And what If you need a Articulation that is not mapped?

 

Which tutorials? The entire point of Expression Maps is customizing keyswitches or CC Data to map any articulation in any library on any instrument. As someone who uses this feature regularly, believe me when I say it does not work at all how you described it. There are presets people have made. But you are not limited to that at all.

 

Originally Posted by: mw design Go to Quoted Post

Too complicated for Myself, because I want to know exactly what a Articulation does to the Piece, so I have to pick this by Hand not a Map

The map is the same thing... picking it by hand. It's more clear what your articulations are doing than via any other means, because you can see the articulations post-hoc in the editor. Again, I'm not sure you understand the feature. No offense.

 

Originally Posted by: mw design Go to Quoted Post

The only Thing I miss in Studio One is a integrated Notation Editor, that will be the major Task, A Symphony between Notation Editor and DAW.

cheers

On this point I agree. Better notation integration is crucial. Steinberg is working on this. But so many other aspects of Cubase are so far behind Studio One that I'm struggling to stay with the program.

The sketchpad, arranger, UI scaling, and project-oriented design... as well as macro integration with the UI, are all miles beyond what Cubase is doing. It's just easier, more intuitive. Heck, they even have better logical functions (humanize, etc) and quantize operations than Cubase does. If they added Expression Maps and integrate Notion's editing a bit, they'll own the film industry IMO.

 

Thanks,

Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Tue, Mar 22 2016 07:40
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 322

The thing is that orchestral sample library type of work definitely isn't a top priority segment for any DAW software producer. Studio One is getting better and better, but stuff like expression maps is most certainly on the bottom of the list because it's just not that interesting for a wider audience. Currently for the digital music industry the focus is most definitely on the "prosumer" and semi-professional segment; electronic music and people who record stuff and promote themselves on YouTube and social media and stuff.

People have been requesting something like expression maps for years, and were hoping that something would be introduced for v.3, which didn't happen. I'm sure it'll happen eventually, but it could take a while.

Even Steinberg, who pioneered a lot of stuff and still produces IMO the best DAW for sample-based orchestral production, has other priorities, and hasn't improved the original expression map system for countless years. There's so much that could be done for the whole feature to make it a whole lot better. But I think the whole, still unsolved VE Pro ordeal kind of shows where the priorities are - or where they are not.

I like Studio One, but at the moment it still doesn't quite cut it yet. I could hardly use most of the VSL stuff if I didn't have expression maps - not in the way I use it now at least. But there's still some other drawbacks in Studio One, like the rigid tempo editor that doesn't support gradual and free tempo changes; which is IMO totally essential for mockups and film work. Another thing I like about Cubase is that the MIDI editor reads and displays chords, I really got used to that when I'm sketching and coming up with parts etc.

I'm pretty much stuck with Cubase right now, whether I like it or not. Which wouldn't be a problem per se - it is a great DAW after all - but lately, it's been making steps towards bloatware, while annoying users with odd performance and compatibility behavior and bugs that weren't there in older versions.

Posted on Tue, Mar 22 2016 11:49
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

JimmyHellfire,

I disagree that it wouldn't attract users. Given the number of unique names I've seen +1'ing this on various forums, I believe there is enough call for this. And orchestral libraries aren't that much of the market? Are you nuts? More people are using orchestral samples (film, personal, or otherwise) than ever before. Between VSL, Spitfire, EastWest, Orchestral Tools, LASS, 8Dio, CineSamples, and plenty more including some new comers, it's growing. Each of these companies have a user base. And any user of multi-articulation instruments benefits from this. The 90's didn't see complex sampled instruments by today's standard. But sampling has it's place and anyone sampling something with more than one sound patch with a keyswitch (far more than just orchestral users) can use it.

I use to manage a support department in a software company, working closely with other departments: UX Design, Programming, QA, Sales, Marketing, etc. And now I do contracted Software Design (both UI and some backend) 1 day a week while I compose. I know as well as anyone the costs, efforts, market and user considerations to be made here. I've done the math. Adding this feature not only would pay for itself, but it would open up a user base for a DAW that they currently aren't getting.

Sorry, I'm sticking to my guns on this point. ;)

In defense of Studio One, I should point one thing out. The tempo editor has a rigid display, much like Cubase does in CC lanes. Everything must be a point. I prefer lines and curves myself. But if you hold ALT and draw in the tempo editor, you can anything you need tempo-wise for a film. See this screenshot.

http://i.imgur.com/EPyqSAq.png

It's not as pretty as other features. But it gets the job done.

An as for VEP, what ordeal are you referring to? It works just fine for me. But if you could point me to a thread I'd want to look into it for sure, given my interest in the DAW.

Thanks for the input,

Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Tue, Mar 22 2016 14:30
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Cologne, Posts 245

Sean, you wrote

"On this point I agree. Better notation integration is crucial. Steinberg is working on this. But so many other aspects of Cubase are so far behind Studio One that I'm struggling to stay with the program."

I see you working with Studio One V3, what are those Features that are special in Studio One 3 ?

I dont have made a Upgrade because I believe that all the modern looking Window App Style will mess up my CPU, but when I look at the new Tempoeditor, I really need a Upgrade :D

Posted on Tue, Mar 22 2016 15:19
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

Originally Posted by: mw design Go to Quoted Post

I see you working with Studio One V3, what are those Features that are special in Studio One 3 ?

 

I initially posted this on Steinberg's forum as a request to have them improve their UI and look openly and honestly at a competitive comparison (like what companies do when they aren't insecure). But they deleted the post. They banned me too without warning. I've never been banned from a forum before. I guess there is a first for everything.

 

To your actual question...

The features I listed in my post on their forum included the Arranger, Sketchpad, Project Management orientation, Piano-roll features like quintole, humanize, tabbed CC lanes, and some general UI features I'm sure you already know about.

 

Sorry for the rant. And I suppose most of this belongs on the VI Forum rather than VSL's. I just post here about articulation mapping because I know VSL users tend to have good insight into it.

 

Cheers,

-Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2016 12:20
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Cologne, Posts 245

 

Im sorry to hear that Sean, but yes I think its okay to compete different DAWs for the best Use of Articulationmanagement and Mapping. I chose Studio One because of the easy Workflow I have the Feeling for the first Time its about making Music and not about complex Routing.

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2016 12:37
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Cologne, Posts 245

But I see the Fact that Logic has a integrated Notation Editor and that is the Reason its Way beyond other DAWs. I really wish for that Feature in Studio One.

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2016 15:48
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

Well, after contacting PreSonus they said that Aritulcation Mapping is gaining in popularity on their forum and sent me a link where to vote on features. They also have a Notation editor request...

 

Score Editor:

https://answers.presonus.com/3643/basic-score-editor-intergrated-into-studio-one-really-needed?show=3643#q3643

Articulation Mapping:

https://answers.presonus.com/3240/fr-articulation-editor

 

Happy voting! ;)

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Thu, Mar 24 2016 12:32
by mw design
Joined on Thu, Dec 05 2013, Cologne, Posts 245

Wow, yes, a Scoreeditor should be exactly like that, you change Notes in Pianorolleditor and at the same Time you see the corect Notes in the Scoreeditor. This is the best Way to learn (in my Opinion ;)

Cheers

Posted on Thu, Mar 24 2016 21:21
by samphony
Joined on Mon, Apr 10 2006, Posts 69
Originally Posted by: SJSF Go to Quoted Post
Well, after contacting PreSonus they said that Aritulcation Mapping is gaining in popularity on their forum and sent me a link where to vote on features.They also have a Notation editor request...

Score Editor:
https://answers.presonus.com/3643/basic-score-editor-intergrated-into-studio-one-really-needed?show=3643#q3643
Articulation Mapping:
https://answers.presonus.com/3240/fr-articulation-editor

Happy voting! ;)


Yes please vote for the articulation editor as well ;)
Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2016 19:42
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

As a matter of following up on this, I've found that Studio One's navigation makes for a fairly effective transition from Expression Maps to living without them. You can turn on a sort of "articulation viewer" as well as color-code the piano roll. So I'm actually fine now.

 

The only two problems I've ran into are the fact that VI-Pro only supports one midi-channel, where program changes and keyswitches aren't condusive to my new setup. The midi-channel is preferable as it allows for 100% "note expression" so-to-speak. I find using articulations together in a flexible enviornment more desireable than a preset, where players don't play the exact same way every time. It's just better keeping articulations on separate midi channels in the sampler. And while Studio One makes it manageable to edit them in a single editor, I still welcome mapping technology. Although I may not use it after this new template. I'm quiet enjoying the layout I have now. It's all very surprizing actually, as I wouldn't dream in a million years I'd give up Expression Maps.

 

That said the only real downfall I've found is with VEP and Studio One. While it shows articulations, the CC lanes aren't consistent due to the VST3 data displayed when S1 and VPE link up. I've added a feature request to deal with that as well:

http://answers.presonus.com/7179/fr-custom-midi-cc-tab-names

Otherwise, everthing is going very very well. Best software experience I've had in years TBH. Some of these points are slightly off the original topic, but with the same end goal in mind, so I share them for other readers who may look into the same articulation management using Studio One, VSL, VEP, Kontakt, etc.

 

Cheers,

Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Mon, Apr 03 2017 18:48
by jbm
Joined on Fri, Jan 16 2004, Posts 1150

Originally Posted by: SJSF Go to Quoted Post

As a matter of following up on this, I've found that Studio One's navigation makes for a fairly effective transition from Expression Maps to living without them. You can turn on a sort of "articulation viewer" as well as color-code the piano roll. So I'm actually fine now.

 

I know this post is a bit old, but I've been wondering about the best ways of dealing with articulation switching in Studio One, and would love to hear a little more about how you're doing this.

Thanks in advance!

J.

Posted on Mon, Apr 03 2017 23:05
by djw
Joined on Thu, Jun 25 2015, Posts 36

There is this extension to Studio One that might be useful:

http://studioonex.narechk.net/index_en.html

Quote:
Articulation Assistant command:

Paints Virtual Instrument articulations for the selected notes. Articulation Assistant uses the standard Pitch Name files which can be created and loaded in Studio One Music Editor (Piano Roll view) in Drum Mode. The following animation demonstrates the process of loading and painting articulations in PRV.

Posted on Tue, Apr 04 2017 02:36
by SJSF
Joined on Sat, Sep 18 2010, Utah, Posts 497

ominiq,

Where have you been all my life?

 

AWESOME!!! I can't play with this for a couple days, but believe me when I say I'm counting down the minutes until I can. The more stuff like this out there, the better!

 

Cheers,

Sean

Studio One 3.5 | VIP 2.3.0.15962 | VEP 6.0.16502 | RME HDSPe AIO | scoredfilms.com
Posted on Fri, May 25 2018 23:17
by hodshonf
Joined on Tue, Oct 04 2016, Posts 21

Originally Posted by: djw Go to Quoted Post

There is this extension to Studio One that might be useful:

http://studioonex.narechk.net/index_en.html

Quote:
Articulation Assistant command:

Paints Virtual Instrument articulations for the selected notes. Articulation Assistant uses the standard Pitch Name files which can be created and loaded in Studio One Music Editor (Piano Roll view) in Drum Mode. The following animation demonstrates the process of loading and painting articulations in PRV.

how do you download and install the extension?

is the Articulation Assistant part of the extension?

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