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MIRx natural volume without MIRx
Last post Thu, May 26 2016 by GoranTch, 35 replies.
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Posted on Sat, May 07 2016 23:09
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Dear forum! :)

I'm exploring the VSL SE and see myself confronted with the ever-so-present question of balancing. :D And of course, I stumbled over the MIRx Natural Volume Overview and would like to know the following.

This question is posed in the light of not owning a MIRx extension. :)

Will I achieve somehwat realistic effects (please bear in mind that I have little orchestration experience), if I adjust the volume sliders in the VE or in my DAW according to the list in the MIRx manual? Thus, percussion at 0db and the other instruments following the list (-11db piccolo, -16db Flute etc...)? Given that in the VI instances have the same CC7 Master Volume (and expression CC11 maybe)?

Thanks a lot!

Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Sat, May 07 2016 23:26
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7761

Yes, those values should give you meaningful startingpoints.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, May 07 2016 23:30
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Shouldn't you be in bed.... I mean.... Thanks a lot to you! :) Next I'm going to check out the panning in the tutorials. :)

Good night, everybody.

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Sun, May 08 2016 17:29
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7761

VSL - the company that never sleeps.   

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, May 15 2016 11:03
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

They work at night... let's check out sundays! :D

I'd really need another piece of advice in that matter...
I now adjusted the dB offsets according to the MIRx manual in the respective VI pro instance's matrix list.

When reading through the list I couldn't really understand how, for instance, the first violins get a -15db offset and the basses only -6db. It seemed counterintuitive as I'd expect it to be the other way around (just consider the size of the sections)!

And now, in a first very simple string harmony, the basses drown everything.

I have not yet adjusted the panning... But still, it feels that I'm doing something wrong here........ :(

Thank you!
Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Sun, May 15 2016 11:37
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7761

Hi Lucas,

which "family" of strings section are you referring to? Appassionata, Orchestral, Chamber, Dimension Strings? Solo instruments?

Kind regards (on a Sunday ;-) ...),

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, May 15 2016 11:41
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Listening to the Adventures On Earth demo at the moment and the mail notification together with the music made me happy, haha! :D

I'm referring to the orchestral strings. :)
I don't want to restrict this question on the strings, though...

Keep in mind, I do not have a MIRx extension!

Happy sunday, you are beasts! :D

Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Mon, May 16 2016 10:11
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7761

Orchestra Violins and Orchestra Basses are both listed with -9dB for MIR's Natural Volume feature. Please see p. 36 of the MIRx Manual.

HTH, 

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, May 16 2016 10:27
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Oh thanks to the sample god and you... I grabbed a 2014 version of the manual... thank you, I'll try it out with the new values. :)

Kind regards,
Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Tue, May 17 2016 12:23
by MassMover
Joined on Mon, Sep 29 2008, Posts 236

Hello Dietz,

I have been using the 2014 version of the Natural Volume Table so far, and now took a look on the newer (2015) version. Obviously, some recently released instruments (solo voices for example) have been added, but there have been changes made also to some existing instruments, namely the Orchestral Strings, which alle have their db offset decreased by 3db (-9 instead of -12 for the violins), and the trombones.

But also some Instruments are completely missing in the new table. So, please shed some light on this:

- The Appassionata Strings (-6, -8, -7 and -7 in the 2014 Version) are missing

- Dimension Brass (only Tenor Trombones sordino are listed)

Finally, there are some patches called "Sections" (not ensembles). For example, what is meant by "11 Section Solo Strings"?

Posted on Tue, May 17 2016 15:06
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

And I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the offsets with respect to the percussion. At medium volume of the orchestra I set the cymbals on 27 velocity to obtain a balanced result... I mean... I trust the MIRx offset list, but... it's making me wonder none the less. :D

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Tue, May 17 2016 21:50
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7761

The list is meant as an additional service - the actual values are available in MIR Pro and MIRx anyway. I will try to make sure that the list gets updated ASAP, though.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, May 18 2016 09:48
by tek0010
Joined on Wed, Jun 17 2015, Posts 50
Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post
Orchestra Violins and Orchestra Basses are both listed with -9dB for MIR's Natural Volume feature. Please see p. 36 of the MIRx Manual.
HTH,


but the software is setting vl and db to -13.5
Posted on Wed, May 18 2016 17:25
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7761

Thanks for pointing that out. As I wrote above: The manual needs an update. :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, May 18 2016 21:44
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Thanks for your help!

And... it's awesome that you even share this list of offsets etc. That's not to be taken for granted.

Is there, by the way, ever a scenario in which I use the percussion at maximum velocity? Because it seems that, if I turn down the volume enough to avoid hearing damage, I can't hear the rest of the orchestra for most of the time. :P

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Thu, May 19 2016 08:50
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7761

... pretty much what would happen on a stage with an orchestra when you stand near a Tamtam being hit at fff.     

 

;-)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, May 19 2016 19:19
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Note to myself: Never stand next to a Tamtam being hit at fff. ;D

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
Posted on Sun, May 22 2016 12:06
by MassMover
Joined on Mon, Sep 29 2008, Posts 236

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post
... pretty much what would happen on a stage with an orchestra when you stand near a Tamtam being hit at fff.    

 

So for clarification: The natural Volume adjusts the volume levels as they would occur when every instrument of a live performance would be close-miked? So when applying these values without MIR I would have to further decrease the volume values of the individual sections according to how far they sit from the listening position, is that correct?

Posted on Sun, May 22 2016 17:33
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7761

I hardly dare to say "yes" - unless you promise not to use these values as rules, but rather as starting points for your own settings. :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, May 23 2016 07:28
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

I think you're trying to formalize all that a bit too much, guys. The Natural Volume values are a good starting point - for a pre-configured template, for example - but not a set-in-stone scientific formula for a perfect mix. Don't overthink it! If something's too loud, turn it down.

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