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Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 04:01
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5513

This thread is pointless as the people here simply want to be negative to establish themselves as experts.

I started it as a celebration of a great new library but that doesn't fit in with the agenda of the people on this Forum, so... 

Goodbye.  

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 05:16
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 333

Originally Posted by: sururick Go to Quoted Post

I just have another question. Is the standard library more than enough since it includes all the articulations? Will I really need all those extra mic positions to make a good sound, or are the standard mics good enough?

I would say the standard library is enough, unless you need to work in Surround and 3D sound formats. The mics available in the standard library are more than sufficient for a standard stereo production and sound great.

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 08:07
by sururick
Joined on Mon, Aug 18 2008, Posts 32

Thanks for the information, JimmyHellfire.

Regards,
Richard

Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: sururick Go to Quoted Post

I just have another question. Is the standard library more than enough since it includes all the articulations? Will I really need all those extra mic positions to make a good sound, or are the standard mics good enough?

I would say the standard library is enough, unless you need to work in Surround and 3D sound formats. The mics available in the standard library are more than sufficient for a standard stereo production and sound great.

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 10:22
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 269

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

This thread is pointless as the people here simply want to be negative to establish themselves as experts.

I started it as a celebration of a great new library but that doesn't fit in with the agenda of the people on this Forum, so... 

Goodbye.  

To be very honest I don't think people spend hundreds of USD/€ just to "establish themselves as experts" nor the way of establishing it is "to be negative".

I'm happy you are happy, and I wish you lot of satisfaction with your new fairly expensive toy.

I'm not equally happy with the missing opportunity of discussing details that may give to VSL team interesting technical and emotional feedback from users, not only from the "celebration" side, but from the disappointment and improvement side as well. Nothing is more valuable for product managers and developers than detailed feedback.

cheers.

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 10:32
by gabriel81
Joined on Tue, Nov 17 2009, Wien, Posts 242

Originally Posted by: sururick Go to Quoted Post

I just have another question. Is the standard library more than enough since it includes all the articulations? Will I really need all those extra mic positions to make a good sound, or are the standard mics good enough?

Good enough depends on your personal taste. On Synchron Percussion there is a comparision between Stereo Mix and Surround to Stereo Downmix. Might be nice to have something for Synchron Strings as well.

VSL SE (no extension), Vienna Smart Orchestra
Sopranos, Flute2, Fanfare Trumpets
Synchron Strings
VE Pro 7
VI Pro + MIRx
Cubase 9
Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 10:33
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 269

Originally Posted by: sururick Go to Quoted Post

I just have another question. Is the standard library more than enough since it includes all the articulations? Will I really need all those extra mic positions to make a good sound, or are the standard mics good enough?

Hi Richard,

nice to meet you again! Yes I confirm it: yesterday i did quite a bit of experiments with Dimension and Chamber strings and MIR Pro. I wasn't able of replicating the nice sonic balance of Synchron strings default stereo mix, that always sounds better than any of my attempt to mix in MIR Pro old lybraries then finally I consider it a real added value (it was my main doubt buying the lybrary).

ciao, Fabio.

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 16:14
by dterry
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Posts 42

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

This thread is pointless as the people here simply want to be negative to establish themselves as experts.

I started it as a celebration of a great new library but that doesn't fit in with the agenda of the people on this Forum, so... 

Goodbye.  

Unfortunately, this seems common, especially with composers.  It is one reason I don't participate at most composer forums anymore.  I, for one, was glad to see your enthusiastic post.  I am very optimistic about Synchron Strings, and any future Synchron products.

There is no reason for people to hijack a positive thread.  They could easily start a new one, and should.  Enjoy Synchron, I know I am.  It has already made its way into my current film score.  

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 16:59
by fritzflotow
Joined on Mon, Apr 23 2007, Posts 322
Originally Posted by: dterry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

This thread is pointless as the people here simply want to be negative to establish themselves as experts.
I started it as a celebration of a great new library but that doesn't fit in with the agenda of the people on this Forum, so...
Goodbye.

Unfortunately, this seems common, especially with composers. It is one reason I don't participate at most composer forums anymore. I, for one, was glad to see your enthusiastic post. I am very optimistic about Synchron Strings, and any future Synchron products. There is no reason for people to hijack a positive thread. They could easily start a new one, and should. Enjoy Synchron, I know I am. It has already made its way into my current film score.

Well, there certainly is a reason for this thread being 'hijacked', which is the extraordinary claims that were made about this library ... I am sure, otherwise Jimmy would have just created a new thread to express his opinion. It is quite funny, because on the other forum Jimmy was punished for defending this library against sceptics, here it is the other way around! This just shows me that some people seem to have a problem with other people having a different opinion and expressing it. Personally, I respect everyone here who thinks this is the best string library there is. I may disagree with it and explain, why, but I won't degrade their opinions by claiming such things, as you did. By those accusations you do nothing but making a fool of yourself.
Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 18:31
by dterry
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Posts 42

Originally Posted by: fritzflotow Go to Quoted Post
This just shows me that some people seem to have a problem with other people having a different opinion and expressing it. Personally, I respect everyone here who thinks this is the best string library there is.


If you respect others opinions, then let the OP have his thread.  I don't see why that would be a problem. It would be more productive to post complaints in a separate thread anyway as it is easier for developers to read and respond. 

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 18:47
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 518
Originally Posted by: dterry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fritzflotow Go to Quoted Post
This just shows me that some people seem to have a problem with other people having a different opinion and expressing it.Personally, I respect everyone here who thinks this is the best string library there is.

If you respect others opinions, then let the OP have his thread. I don't see why that would be a problem. It would be more productive to post complaints in a separate thread anyway as it is easier for developers to read and respond.


I posted this a few times in the past and I post it a last time now. A perfect Community has a separate Bugreport-Collection-area. This should be visible in the Header like Forum-rules and announcements. That will be the bestcase-Situation for developers and Users.

(BTW do i think this will stop SOME conflicts in the Community)
Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 18:55
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 333

Originally Posted by: fritzflotow Go to Quoted Post
Well, there certainly is a reason for this thread being 'hijacked', which is the extraordinary claims that were made about this library ... I am sure, otherwise Jimmy would have just created a new thread to express his opinion. It is quite funny, because on the other forum Jimmy was punished for defending this library against sceptics, here it is the other way around! This just shows me that some people seem to have a problem with other people having a different opinion and expressing it.

Yeah, it's funny. On V.I. Control, I'm the blind, deaf and retardedly loyal "fanboy" who would jump off a bridge if Herb told me to, and here, I'm the thread hijacking leader of the pitchfork wielding horde.

Actually I'm sorry for "hijacking" the thread. But indeed, I felt that it was important to relativize what to me seemed like a somewhat misplaced and misleading hymn of praise, while in fact elsewhere legitimate criticism is being raised. For the sake of objectivity and to put things into a real perspective. I thought it was important to make sure that genuine VSL users voice their concerns here, without the noise and hyperbole of people in other forums who seemingly find more interest and joy in starting bush fires than anything else.

Perhaps a thread of its own would have been better though. Maybe an administrator could split off the posts in a new thread. And call it "Synchron is not yet the best!" or something ...

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 18:58
by djw
Joined on Thu, Jun 25 2015, Posts 36
Originally Posted by: dterry Go to Quoted Post
If you respect others opinions, then let the OP have his thread. I don't see why that would be a problem.


That's not how a forum works. It's a place for discussion, not an echo chamber for whoever started the thread.
Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 19:31
by dterry
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Posts 42

Originally Posted by: djw Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dterry Go to Quoted Post
If you respect others opinions, then let the OP have his thread. I don't see why that would be a problem.
That's not how a forum works. It's a place for discussion, not an echo chamber for whoever started the thread.

Right.  Then discuss, but no need to counter someone's opinion just because they offered one you disagree with.   

This is why forums aren't considered viable places for discussion for many of us - "how a forum works" currently isn't how constructive, respectful dialogue works.  That is one reason I (and most of my colleagues that I know of) don't spend much time on forums anymore;  also simply too busy.  And here I am being reminded why I don't usually post on forums. Back to work.

Congrats to VSL on Synchron!  Love the stage too - hope to record there at some point. 

Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 19:56
by djw
Joined on Thu, Jun 25 2015, Posts 36
Originally Posted by: dterry Go to Quoted Post
Love the stage too - hope to record there at some point.

Don't we all? :p
Posted on Thu, Jan 04 2018 06:16
by sururick
Joined on Mon, Aug 18 2008, Posts 32

Hi Fabio,

Thanks for the information. Is this the same Fabio from the GPO community!?

Regards,
Richard

 

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: sururick Go to Quoted Post

I just have another question. Is the standard library more than enough since it includes all the articulations? Will I really need all those extra mic positions to make a good sound, or are the standard mics good enough?

Hi Richard,

nice to meet you again! Yes I confirm it: yesterday i did quite a bit of experiments with Dimension and Chamber strings and MIR Pro. I wasn't able of replicating the nice sonic balance of Synchron strings default stereo mix, that always sounds better than any of my attempt to mix in MIR Pro old lybraries then finally I consider it a real added value (it was my main doubt buying the lybrary).

ciao, Fabio.

Posted on Thu, Jan 04 2018 09:46
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 167

Originally Posted by: FabioA Go to Quoted Post
It's a matter of phases problem when you have to crossfade between different samples..

There is a phase issue when a sample is played twice, not with different samples, or we couldn't listen to 2 violins playing together. There are nice phase effects, not phase problems.

Posted on Thu, Jan 04 2018 11:53
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89

Originally Posted by: javajam Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: FabioA Go to Quoted Post
It's a matter of phases problem when you have to crossfade between different samples..

There is a phase issue when a sample is played twice, not with different samples, or we couldn't listen to 2 violins playing together. There are nice phase effects, not phase problems.




I'm afraid there are much more phase problems in the audio world than you could imagine.

The one you mentioned is just one exemple of  phase issue that leads to a Comb Filter effect (in fact is probably the only one that is used as a creative effect, and it's even used to create digital reverbs...). 

Crossfading between velocity layers is a much complex task, and phases are a problem.

Posted on Thu, Jan 04 2018 12:21
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 167

Originally Posted by: FabioA Go to Quoted Post
I'm afraid there are much more phase problems in the audio world than you could imagine.
The one you mentioned is just one exemple of  phase issue that leads to a Comb Filter effect (in fact is probably the only one that is used as a creative effect, and it's even used to create digital reverbs...). Crossfading between velocity layers is a much complex task, and phases are a problem.


Thank you for the phase course, buddy... Phase effects are everywhere or we would have one single ear or even we would never use any natural nore artificial reverb. And we would throw all our synths to the trash. And we would never use any recording of the ocean on the beach.

If crossfading between two layers should be a problem, mixing two similar sources should always be a problem too. Phase effect always occur everywhere in a stereo field. It may be more or less prominent but never a "phase issue" we can encounter with one single sample. And I disagree with your rule "phases are a problem when crossfading between velocity layers", as soon as they're made of different samples.

Posted on Thu, Jan 04 2018 12:31
by FabioA
Joined on Fri, Jan 13 2012, Posts 89

I'm sorry but you started the phae course, buddy :)
I give up btw. Phases are important for our hearing, indeed, but still Deterios surdus eo nullus, qui renuit audire.

Posted on Thu, Jan 04 2018 13:04
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 167

Originally Posted by: FabioA Go to Quoted Post
Deterios surdus eo nullus, qui renuit audire.


Sure my ears lost a few high kHz all those years... That said I still can (and like to) hear different opinions as soon as they're argued, that's called debate and knowledge sharing. But when it goes to the pupil game "you did it first". Or ends up with a pejorative latin motto... What do you really know about my ears, btw?

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