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Posted on Tue, Mar 13 2018 18:48
by nicola74
Joined on Sun, Aug 02 2009, Posts 26
Originally Posted by: Kai Go to Quoted Post
<p>Nicola, this is a great midi rendition and an extremely useful comparison - thanks so much for sharing!</p>
<p>Dimension+Orchestral is my favorite version as well. However if I had to choose any single library it would actually be Orchestral, since they have this silky texture in the high strings (around 0.25), that is just amazing.</p>


For me DS is more focused while Orch. is more lush, different sound for different scope, the problem is that sometimes I don't know which one to choose, so I use...both :-)
Posted on Tue, Mar 13 2018 19:00
by nicola74
Joined on Sun, Aug 02 2009, Posts 26
Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post
<p>The best one of this performance is Dimension Strings.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
<p>The Synchron have too much high frequency, a common problem in sampled strings.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>


Hi William,
I like the sound of SyS and it is different from the earler VSL strings libraries, it is more brilliant and, well, modern.
What would you do to make its sound rounder? I am not an expert in mixing and so on, then I would appreciate every suggestion...
Posted on Tue, Mar 13 2018 19:25
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5194

I've been obsessed with this because I keep on going to live orchestral concerts and noticing how much darker the strings - especially violins - sound than sampled.  I have been experimenting with doing various EQs. No settings that are "out of the box" are really like the live instruments.  Recording engineers probably don't like this but I think the frequencies above 5000 hz should be almost gone, it is that extreme of a difference.

The question is why.   It may have to do with the amplitude of those frequencies - they fall off more quickly with any distance or any absorption in the room.  A recording studio and particular microphones negate this natural effect, leading to excessively bright violins. 

Also even cellos can sound nasal.  Another thing I have noticed between live and samples is cellos in an orchestral setting  never sound "boomy" or deep,  but almost always do with samples.  There is a setting in MIR that somewhat accounts for this - "clean low end."  But you can go even farther and add more EQ in the low range.

Posted on Tue, Mar 13 2018 21:56
by nicola74
Joined on Sun, Aug 02 2009, Posts 26
Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post
<p>I've been obsessed with this because I keep on going to live orchestral concerts and noticing how much darker the strings - especially violins - sound than sampled.&nbsp; I have been experimenting with doing&nbsp;various&nbsp;EQs. No settings that are "out of the box" are really like the live instruments.&nbsp; Recording engineers probably don't like&nbsp;this but&nbsp;I think the frequencies above 5000 hz should be almost gone, it is that extreme of a difference.</p>
<p>The question is why. &nbsp; It may have to do with the amplitude of those frequencies - they fall off more quickly with any distance or any absorption in the room.&nbsp; A recording studio and particular microphones negate this natural effect, leading to excessively bright violins.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Also even cellos can sound nasal.&nbsp; Another thing I have noticed between live and samples is&nbsp;cellos in an orchestral setting &nbsp;never sound "boomy" or deep,&nbsp; but almost always do with samples.&nbsp; There is a setting in MIR that somewhat accounts for this - "clean low end."&nbsp; But you can go even farther and add more EQ in the low range.</p>


Hi William,
Thanks for the answer, interesting point of you. I think that there are some differences between a live concert and a recording session, but I will try your suggestions ;-)
Posted on Wed, Mar 14 2018 14:28
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5194

Yes there are differences, but the sound of recorded orchestras always tries to emulate live.  And one usually (maybe never) hears this exaggeration in recordings - except in samples.  In fact it is so common I now expect it if something is a sample performance.  

Posted on Fri, Mar 30 2018 14:54
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 407

Hi all,

This was an experimental piece for string orchestra, created exclusively with the Vienna Symphonic Library strings. In this version, I used Synchron Strings exclusively, with no additional reverb, except for a bit of "Miracle".

Metamorphosis - Synchron Version

 

In this version, I layered orchestral, chamber, and solo strings, and placed them in Mir's Teldex Studio.

Metamorphosis - Orchestral/Chamber/Solo Strings Version

My thoughts:



-I began this version by copying the midi data for the previous orchestral/chamber/solo strings version. In all, it took about 4 hours of tweaking to complete the Synchron version.

-I like the sharp attacks of the Synchron strings (it's nice to be able to have that little "marcato" at the start of a legato phrase)

-The shorts are clean, crisp, decisive

-Increased velocity layers allows for less precise tweaking of the expression cc data

-The workflow doesn't feel any more efficient using Synchron with the current Vienna Instruments player. Hoping that the soon-to-be-released Synchron player is more intuitive and improves workflow.

-The piece is a little "punchy/bombastic" in terms of the overall force of the sound.  I was definitely trying to create a heavy handed performance with decisive articulations so that I could compare the two versions.  

Dave

p.s.  This is a duplicate of the post in the compositions thread, as I know many people might be interested in Synchron tests but don't visit that sub-forum.  



www.dearvillainmusic.com - music for live performance by David Carovillano

www.acclarion.ca - concert accordion & clarinet duo
Posted on Fri, Mar 30 2018 17:53
by strytten
Joined on Sat, Jan 06 2007, Posts 65

Syncron is the clear winner for me. I hear more detail, and the room is more convincing. Also I get a clearer visual image of the string sections; maybe that comes from using one library? Great writing - and thanks for sharing!

Steve

Steve Trytten
All VSL strings, winds, and most others, Vienna Imperial, VE Pro, MIR, Protools 10.3.5, Mac Mntn Lion 12 core, LASS, Ivory, Kontakt 5, Spitfire Sable Strings
Posted on Thu, Apr 05 2018 13:46
by theiss1979
Joined on Mon, Jan 27 2003, Hessen, Germany, Posts 134

Thank you very much for adding Appassionata Strings. ;-)

Sebastian
Posted on Thu, Apr 05 2018 14:10
by nicola74
Joined on Sun, Aug 02 2009, Posts 26
Originally Posted by: theiss1979 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you very much for adding Appassionata Strings. ;-)


You welcome :-)
Which one do you prefer? I really can't decide, I like all the different sounds, now I am working also with Dim Strings Sordinos, another world obviously and another great one!
Posted on Mon, Apr 09 2018 07:59
by theiss1979
Joined on Mon, Jan 27 2003, Hessen, Germany, Posts 134

Personally I prefer the Orchestral+Dimension Mix. Lush broad sound with a lot of depth. Dimension and Appassionata on their own sound great too. Appassionata sounds really lush and powerful. The weakest, in my opinion, is in fact Synchron.

Sebastian
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