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Synchron Strings 1 Your Level of Satisfaction ?
Last post Wed, Jul 11 2018 by belkina, 64 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 17:47
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 431

Hi,

Now that the Synchron Strings Player is ready, and Synchron Strings 1 are finally released, It would be interesting to know your level of satisfaction with Synchron Strings 1 running in the new Synchron Player.  In terms of the sounds, musicality, playability, realism, workflow, flexibility, customization, and how it compares to other strings libraries from other developers. 

On a scale of (1 thru 10) 10 being super-satisfied and very happy, and 1 being very unsatisfied, and unhappy.  What score would you give VSL Synchron Strings 1  ? 

Thanks,

Muziksculp 

Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 19:07
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 431

So far, most of the feedback I'm reading on this and other forums is very negative. 

I wonder if VSL realise that this library is a big failure, and that it might be a smart move to re-develop it from scratch.  Although, I doubt that's going to happen. 

Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 19:20
by Toro
Joined on Fri, Apr 03 2015, Posts 5

They are (VSL guys) too happy with new player, almost they forgot on unmusical sound.

I feel that the fake legato sounds better, like this re-invited monstrose nothing.

I do not understand until now that they have not done anything in spite of time, this should be their pride and  not crash. 7 months of colored nothing.

Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 19:25
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 431

I Pre-Purchased the full version of Synchron Strings 1 when it was first announced last year, I think it was October, 2017 and it was promised to be released in Nov. last year !  

Fast-Forward in time, it's June 23rd, 2018 and it's finally here with the new Synchron Player, but so far the feedback is not good. Given the amount of SSD space the full version requires, I don't feel I'm going to even install this library given all the negative feedback so far. I can fill up that SSD space with so much better sounding strings, and other libraries. What a bummer, I really hope VSL re-evaluates this library, and considers re-developing it. 

Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 19:31
by Toro
Joined on Fri, Apr 03 2015, Posts 5

sorry for you (full ver),

I already delete this re-invited strings from my m.2 ssd, but also want back my money

Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 19:59
by Piotr Katzpersky
Joined on Mon, May 11 2015, Polska, Posts 31

Interesting question and no easy answer. I will try to answer without taking into equation the emotional baggage that came with that release.

If I would somehow pay full price I would say 3 / 10. Very basic articulation set that looks big because of plenty of redundant patches with similar content, huge amount of space on drive needed, but reason for that is not obvious (one of competitors also have 7-8 layers, but he managed to sqeeze it into 30GB library), fake sforzando (!!!), The Blur, odd slur legato, to small of a difference between vibratos + unrealised promises. And for 600 bucks I could buy at ease 2 or even 3 other string libraries if lucky.

But I paid much less and for that it is... 5/10? Because shorts are awesome, pizzicatos are sweet, overall sound is clean, pure, raw + player is nice, although still needs work.

But there are bigger in terms of content (and lighter on resources) libraries for less. So if VSL would say "we are giving money back for synchrons", I would take them without hesitation. I guess it sums things up.

Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 20:09
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 313

This library is far inferior to all the competition and even VSL's previous libraries. Such a little amount of articulations for a ridiculously high price. I really like all of the previous libraries, but this one is no re-invention, it's a great leap backwards. This can only be fixed with re-thinking and re-developing the whole thing. I really can't understand how VSL could have released such a library. The "older" libraries are so great, playable and have so many articulations. This is a shame, sorry to say that! I'm very disappointed.

I really, really like the actual sound and the Dennis Sands mixes from Synchron Stage, but with this library I'm not able to achieve this "Hollywood" sound. Night and day.

The most disappointing things for me:
1) room tone and reverb: too much, also on the close microphones
2) legatos: no hearable transition, no innovation, no improvement
3) missing portamentos
4) various attacks: false advertising, only a stacked short layer
5) other articulations: false advertising, sforzatos and fortepianos sound fake and stacked as well
6) velocity layers: can't hear a great difference in timbre
7) vibrato: missing molto espressivo

Actually, I think they had to change the way they recorded and edited the patches. I'm also disappointed to see the same patches and the same procedure as in the older libraries (normal legato, slurred legato, fast legato). This isn't an innovation.

I also wished they had made Synchron Player way easier. There are too many keyswitches. What about an articulation system like all of the competition, e.g. select a legato patch, have a slider for dynamics, a slider for vibrato and that's it. I expected something like in Spitfire's performance legatos in which a lot of stuff is going under the hood. You just play and the legato transitions are controlled by speed, the attacks (the initial one of a phrase, not all of them) are controlled by velocity and so on.

Where are all of the announced innovations, re-inventions and algorithms?

I will definitely keep on buying VSL's (older) libraries, because they are great and I love the features of VI Pro.

Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 20:38
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 274

If anyone here wants to sell their Synchron Strings (FULL) version, PM me.  We can go to VSL together and see if we can organize a license transfer (we need their permission to do so I believe).

I've got the standard version, so just need the upgrade ;)

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.4.8. Mojave & Windows 10.
Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 21:33
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

Well. I think that ultimately, the library doesn't deliver.

It has tremendous potential. The basic sound is three-dimensional, there's a sense of space, depth and clarity to it that you don't hear in other string libraries. I like the shorts, the pizz, the soft longs - great stuff. But the glaring issues unfortunately overshadow the positives.

I'm having a real hard time with the cheap trickery used to create fake articulations. sfz and fp sound terrible and unmusical, because they're nothing more than sustained notes with some absolutely unfitting staccato glued onto them. I believe that the super shorts are just mangled and mis-edited versions of the standard shorts. Marcato is just staccato layered with longs. This strikes me as cheap, and should have no place in such an expensive library that's supposed to be perceived as absolutely high end. I'm surprised that VSL apparently thought that the users wouldn't have higher expectations and would be OK with this.

Overall it's disappointing how little content there really is. The library offers only the most basic of articulations, which stands in absurd contrast to the humonguous disk space requirements and the very high price. Spiccato, detache, portamento, col legno, harmonics... all of that should be standard in 2018, especially in a library that takes up so much space and costs that much money.

The whole legato thing has already been thematized more that sufficiently, so I won't go into that.

I'm not sold on the many dynamic layers either. It's great for shorts, but other than that, I don't even really hear much change in the timbre and it makes the patches harder and more difficult to work with.

The Synchron Player is intelligently designed, but complicated and there would have been way more intuitive ways to design certain things instead of employing all these patches and folders and dimensions etc. For example, a sustain patch could have instead simply react differently to key velocity for softer and stronger attacks, and have a normal vibrato crossfade control.

So, yeah. It could have been fantastic, but as it is now, the price/performance ratio is a letdown and it all just didn't pan out. I'm under the strong impression that something went massively wrong during production and what we are seeing/hearing here are the salvaged remains of a project that for some reason suffered one or more catastrophic setbacks.

Posted on Sat, Jun 23 2018 22:30
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 431

Hi,

I hope that the VSL team is reading these posts, to know how their customers feel about Synchron Strings 1, and the Synchron Player.  

I was very optimistic, and excited when they first announced Synchron Strings 1 last year, but now, I'm very sad, and dissapointed that this library is almost a total falure. What a missed opportunity for VSL to have moved a quantum leap forward, rather than backwards.  I really, really hope they get the message, and are not ignoring all of this feedback from their customers, I seriously feel they will do all of us, and themselves a big favor by re-developing Synchron Strings again from scratch, maybe a new team, and new approach. As is,  it has no chance of competing with other high-end string libraries from other prominent developers. 

Cheers,

Muziksculp 

Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 00:59
by yilalatavsl
Joined on Tue, Nov 03 2015, Posts 41

1

Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 01:41
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 431

Originally Posted by: yilalatavsl Go to Quoted Post

1

Thanks for posting your level of satisfaction with Synchron Strings 1, and Synchron Strings Player. 

Let's get more Synchron Strings 1 feedback, and satisfaction level score on this forum thread from users. 

Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 03:56
by mobileavatar
Joined on Mon, Jul 25 2011, Posts 64

Originally Posted by: Piotr Katzpersky Go to Quoted Post

But there are bigger in terms of content (and lighter on resources) libraries for less. So if VSL would say "we are giving money back for synchrons", I would take them without hesitation. I guess it sums things up.

+1. To me, the biggest disappointment is how VSL treated its customers, almost treating us like its enemies rather customers.

All of our concerns were never addressed. They were mostly ignored. The ONLY time VSL responded was the LEGATO BLUR (the ultimate cosmetic touchup). If it were only a TEMP solution, I could have empathized a little more.

While the MIX page is a great addition, that tree structure is nothing more than a gimmick, but considered how many switches it requires to make an articulation switch, it reveals how poorly thought out the player is. I like the relational aspects of the tree, but it is nothing really more advanced than the original VI matrices. They could have used color codes to show such relations on a matrix, and  added the MIX page to VI and call it a day.

If VSL stays numb as they have been, this library will surely end my VSL journey.

Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 05:37
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 274

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh Go to Quoted Post

If anyone here wants to sell their Synchron Strings (FULL) version, PM me.  We can go to VSL together and see if we can organize a license transfer (we need their permission to do so I believe).

I've got the standard version, so just need the upgrade ;)

I'm serious about this by the way.  I'm not writing 4 chord takio drum 8 unison horn music and could use a library built for detailed polyphonic music, which this one does.  If those highs and surrounds sound as good on the strings as they do on the CFX, I'll be in good shape.

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.4.8. Mojave & Windows 10.
Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 06:07
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 533
8

This Library has many well sounding Articulations. To say that all Legati are crap ... ? Listen to the Soft Legato ... very nice and emotional play here!

The only Statement I do agree is, that the slurred Legato has a pretty unemotional Slur. Yep, and we need more „Movement“. The effects have shown that „movement“ like scaleruns make this Library pretty hot.

I suggest to wait for the 3rd Package, which will probably will contain all what you miss. (I guess/ hope)

And if this 3rd Package will fail, you sell your Library.

I would not sell anything now, because ... just imagine the third package would have all the articulations you are missing like an emotional Legato-slur and different portamenti and runs, slides etc. ... the basic articulations are still in the first package and you will need both.

Think about it before you sell what you have.
Ethereum rules ! The BTC is my friend :)

To the Moon !! 🚀🌙
Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 06:31
by Piotr Katzpersky
Joined on Mon, May 11 2015, Polska, Posts 31

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
8

I would not sell anything now, because ... just emagine the third package would have all the articulations you are missing like an emotional Legato-slur and different portamenti and runs, slides etc. ... the basic articulations are still in the first package and you will need both.

I'm not selling either. But I would give them back if there would be an option ;) Or maybe there should be an exchange program - library for a library of equal or lower value?

Anyway, if there will be an expansion pack I would need to buy another ssd for that, not mentioning RAM upgrade. And why should I invest more money into Synchron Strings if - in general - they dissapoinited me? I'm glad that this nigthmare of a release is over though. Now I'm going to write some crap music.

Free portamento expansion would be nice though and for that I can find additional 10GBs of space ;)

Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 06:55
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 533
@Piotr

I do agree that the Synchron Series is a Hardware-Challenge for all of us. That‘s why I hope that Package 3 will be a total match! I count on the VSL Employees and that they know this.

SSD prices are falling at the moment because of last years high-demand-„overproduction“ and a much lower demand since a few weeks.
It seems that the pricedrop will reach a peak in Q3 and demand and prices will rise again. Time to invest ;)
Ethereum rules ! The BTC is my friend :)

To the Moon !! 🚀🌙
Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 07:22
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post


I suggest to wait for the 3rd Package, which will probably will contain all what you miss. (I guess/ hope)

And if this 3rd Package will fail, you sell your Library.

But even if such an expansion came out - we would be talking about a package that requires close to terrabyte of disk space and would end up costing perhaps, what? Close to 1500 bucks in total? Only to deliver the same stuff that can be had elsewhere for half that price while being 1/10 of it in size. And you gotta admit, the least senseful thing to do after getting burnt on a purchase is to plan on investing even more in the same product. :)

The way I see it, SyS needs an overhaul at its core - technically as well as "philosophically".

Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 08:32
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Sorry guys, this thread seems to me either to early or to late.

Even if everybody here might know that I am far from being the greatest fan of the Way Guy Bacos makes his demo snippets all knew from them for month how this library might sound. No one here has complained any of his little examples. If you have difficulties now to do the same with even a much more powereful playerengine, who might be to blame for???

On the other hand keep in mind it is just a couple of hours that I finished the download for the Synchron-Player-Samples. Before I would judge my satrisfaction, I at least would like to have had the chance to establish my own workflow with the new library and its player engine.

This is the reason why sometimes i remind my "old friend" William who is asking those who are the loudest in criticising, for their own musical examples. to be able to evaluate based on what knowledge someone criticises.

Please keep in mind VSL-Samplelinbraries are musical instruments. You should learn to play them otherwise you are in danger to resemble the one who blame the Steinway for not playing Chopin for you by it self. What means the more powerful a library and Software is, the more you have to decide and the more it is up to your knowledge what yoiu can get out of it.

I personally have some doubts that anyone could have had until now time enough to really learn and explore all possibilities to get good results.

So here is my suggestion. Do not simply rant without any concrete example what you are talking about. Better give us all some days or better weeks to accustom ourself on the new software and library, learn to build good templartres, expressionmaps etc. and than let us compare what all of us have been able to make out of it, and which iomprovements we really would like to have. 

The VSL-Team has invested a great amoumt of reflection and tedioous work to prepare such an already in technical sense absolutly outstanding product. They deserve a founded feedback and nothing as superficial as I can read here in one or another posting just a couple of hours after finishing the last download.

HoweverI'll let you know what I think about my satisfaction with this library not before I have done at least a couple of projects with it.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 09:20
by Eptesicus
Joined on Wed, Oct 16 2013, Posts 33

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Please keep in mind VSL-Samplelinbraries are musical instruments. You should learn to play them otherwise you are in danger to resemble the one who blame the Steinway for not playing Chopin for you by it self. What means the more powerful a library and Software is, the more you have to decide and the more it is up to your knowledge what yoiu can get out of it.

I personally have some doubts that anyone could have had until now time enough to really learn and explore all possibilities to get good results.

So here is my suggestion. Do not simply rant without any concrete example what you are talking about. Better give us all some days or better weeks to accustom ourself on the new software and library, learn to build good templartres, expressionmaps etc. and than let us compare what all of us have been able to make out of it, and which iomprovements we really would like to have.

That is the point. No one has heard any good examples that make you go wow, especially in terms of a nice expressive piece using the legatos.

If VSL think their product is so great, maybe they should provide us with a piece of music written with Synchron that makes us all go "wow".

Literally the whole point of an orchestral string library is to be able to replicate the sound of live players as realitsically as possible. This library fails on that front completely.

They used the Blue Planet 2 theme in their promo material, so maybe they should recreate that with the libary and see how close they can get it to the real thing.

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

The VSL-Team has invested a great amoumt of reflection and tedioous work to prepare such an already in technical sense absolutly outstanding product. They deserve a founded feedback and nothing as superficial as I can read here in one or another posting just a couple of hours after finishing the last download

It is not an oustanding product and the feedback is warranted. If they have employees working for them that think this is a good string library for 2018, then that is very worrying.

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