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Synchron Strings 1 Your Level of Satisfaction ?
Last post Wed, Jul 11 2018 by belkina, 64 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 22:06
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

And I personally do prefer to do that more than a couple of hours after the first download.

The library has been out since november 2017, the legatos a few weeks later. Even for you, I belive the timeframe would suffice?

Quote:
So let us hear with concrete audio-examples from really comparable situations, what you mean, everybody can judge himself.

You do have the library, right? So what don't you check for yourself instead of expecting me to entertain silly requests. I've formed my opinion, don't have to convince you about it.

How about a challenge for yourself instead: play a single chord with the short articulation. Just 8ths and release the keys, don't press them down for longer than the note duration. Do the same with sfz. Do the same with fp. Or just to make sure, enter the notes in the piano roll an play back the event with all three articulations. Tell me what you hear. Oh, or even better: let us hear your results.

Quote:
Wouldn't that be a more concrete and detailed and constructive way than just complaining in loud and provocating ranting manner?

Don't be so ignorant. As I already said, people have voiced measured and justified criticism and you're dismissing it as loud, provocative ranting. That's why your objections can't be taken seriously. Anyways, this is already enough of the usual kindergarten on VSL forums for me. I gave my honest feedback and that's all that matters. Cheers!

I fear you did not make the difference between the samples available in VI Format and the Library in Synchron-Player Version, which is the only thing I am interested in. This no matter of ignorance, but a significant difference, since the Library was developed and intended for the Synchron-Player. And imho there definitly was scarcly time enough to professionally learn and explore the usage of this Synchron-Player-Library.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 22:16
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: Tensivity Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Spitfire????????? OMG

Great Library if you do not intend to use it for real music.....

well known for its most discusserd "Legatos" and extraordinary "humanisation"

Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this is a community of VSL snobs not worth paying much attention to.

It was simply the "quality", "usability", "sound" "agility" overall "maturity" and "legato" of the Spitfire Orchestra which I own and tried open minded and pretty interested in several real music projects which disapointed me so much, that this made me finally pretty happy to work with VSL.  nothing snobish, just a bit a pitty to have more or less wasted the money for Spitfire. And you know that especially the "legatos" of Spitfire are far from being very much apreciated anywhere,

OK I am not a fan of Nils Frahm, Olafur arnalds depressiv musical nihilism which more and more characterises the most Spitfire Libraries and marketing . If you think appreciating more brilliant richer Music would be snobish I confess being guilty

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Mon, Jun 25 2018 02:22
by AntoineM
Joined on Sun, Jan 27 2013, Posts 6

I own every other VSL string libraries. I love all of them, especially Dimension Strings.

This one is the only one I frankly do not like. The main reasons: 

  • Lack of basic articulations such as a real portamento
  • Cheap/fake articulations (fp/sfz)
  • Lack of expressiveness in high velocities
  • No divisi like in LASS.
  • No real innovation.
  • => Bad value for money!

And so much wait for so few… 

I also feel that VSL do not care about customer feedback. They never « pamper » their customers. Plus, if you lose or break the painful dongle, you are totally f..cked.

My level of satisfaction so far : 2 / 10 (for the flautandos and some shorts).

Posted on Mon, Jun 25 2018 05:09
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1781

I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".

But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music

I recommend everyone to listen to a bit of film music on youtube and listen to the Legatos. There is not much left of the intimate "transition noise", as we are e.g. used to from the Chamberstrings. Listen for example to this track: https://youtu.be/QrhqkEHep88

 

I believe that such music can be played without a problem with the sync strings.  But try such a piece with the rather thin sound of the Dimension strings...  So it certainly depends on what one uses the Synchrons or the Dimensions. The right library for the right music so to say. Furthermore, I noticed when trying out, that you can make incredible pressure with these strings. There's a lot of potential in that. Unfortunately, I have not had time to try out the library with the new player until now, so I'm with "fahl5": First we have to learn how to use this library properly and also for what kind of music style.
Likewise with this library, too, one can combine them e.g. with the solo strings. The contrast is so great that this probably leads to results as in André Rieu's music:
https://youtu.be/yjY-mV0mnqs

I claim to be able to produce such a similar result with the solo violin and the SynchronStrings 1 as well...

All the best

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Mon, Jun 25 2018 22:18
by Veola
Joined on Thu, Jun 30 2016, Posts 15

I have held back so far, giving VSL a chance to produce something they actually advertised. 

After having tested the new player i must say that i am disappointed. I initially liked the clear and detailed sound but it defintely does NOT  "set a new standard in sound, playability and realism".

- The sound is good for some parts, BUT the 1st violins sound muddy (I used the 2nd instead), the highs sound to sharp and it should sound fuller for an ensemble of that size.

- The playability might have improved over VI (time will tell), BUT its far off setting a new standard. Its just a pretty rearanging of existing functions. It can't beat Cinematic Studio Strings.

- The realism might be getting better with a lot of fine-tuning, BUT i would have expected that Synchron Strings blows us away...it doesn't. Claiming to "re-invent" legato is close to FRAUD (this was one of the reasons I bought the lib). Legato-blur is just a sad attempt to cover up its failure. Don't call legato inventive unless you can beat Cinematic Studio Strings. 

I would have wished to include this lib in my works, but its just not good enough. I would have expected much more, based on the hype VSL made about the Synchron Strings...3/10

(Dear VSL, I happy to receive a Synchon Strings product that lives up to the hype you made around it, a refund or exchange for another library)

Posted on Mon, Jun 25 2018 22:57
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 359

I think it can be possible that we all are/were expecting too much. Re-invention must be seen in terms of the previous libraries and not in general compared to the competition. 

It's all in the product description. This is the re-invention:
1) huge amount of velocity layers --> okay, good idea, but no hearable timbre change
2) huge amount of variations --> okay, for me it sounds the same
3) less keyswitching or patch switching, e. g. repetitions built in --> okay
4) new algorithms --> okay, but where?

That's not enough, for sure. Not for a high-end library in 2018, and not for the money.

Maybe we could hear some feedback from VSL what the actual re-invention was meant to be and if they are happy with the current feedback of their customers? And I would like to know if the critized articulations like sforzatos and fortepianos are in fact fake ones.

I can understand that some comments may be harsh or unthankful because the VSL team invested all of it's time in developing and releasing this product. But I think that we all deserve some kind of clarification, especially all the early-birds having waited for such a long time only to realise that it was in vain, in my opinion.

Posted on Mon, Jun 25 2018 23:04
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 280

Originally Posted by: Veola Go to Quoted Post

(Dear VSL, I happy to receive a Synchon Strings product that lives up to the hype you made around it, a refund or exchange for another library)

If you have the full version, I'll buy it from you (or anyone else reading this).  We can go to VSL together to organize the license xfer.  I've got the standard and just am interested in those additional mics. 

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.6.3. Big Sur & Windows 10.
Posted on Tue, Jun 26 2018 02:00
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

Originally Posted by: Beat Kaufmann Go to Quoted Post

I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".

But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music

I recommend everyone to listen to a bit of film music on youtube and listen to the Legatos. There is not much left of the intimate "transition noise", as we are e.g. used to from the Chamberstrings. Listen for example to this track: https://youtu.be/QrhqkEHep88

 

I believe that such music can be played without a problem with the sync strings.  But try such a piece with the rather thin sound of the Dimension strings...  So it certainly depends on what one uses the Synchrons or the Dimensions. The right library for the right music so to say. Furthermore, I noticed when trying out, that you can make incredible pressure with these strings. There's a lot of potential in that. Unfortunately, I have not had time to try out the library with the new player until now, so I'm with "fahl5": First we have to learn how to use this library properly and also for what kind of music style.
Likewise with this library, too, one can combine them e.g. with the solo strings. The contrast is so great that this probably leads to results as in André Rieu's music:
https://youtu.be/yjY-mV0mnqs

I claim to be able to produce such a similar result with the solo violin and the SynchronStrings 1 as well...

All the best

Beat

It is great to hear from a true VSL expert like Beat Kaufmann as well as the amazing fahl5.  These guys know what they are talking about from years of experience.   Synchron is a new library, with a new style.  I love the sound and am just starting to get familiar with it.  It is awesome.  Huge.  It will take some time to learn what is there.

Posted on Tue, Jun 26 2018 05:26
by pianoguy
Joined on Thu, Feb 28 2008, Colorado Springs, Colorado, Posts 59

I'm with fahl5 on this - the Synchron Player works so differently than VI or VI Pro that few of us have sufficient experience yet to express a deeply informed opinion as to the library's ultimate quality.

Nevertheless, here's my shallow opinion: There's a dramatic improvement between my first Synchon Strings project in its original VI version and the rebuilt project using Synchron Player. Legato is much smoother; releases, which were particularly squirrely in VIP, are a non-issue now. It was no fun re-doing all the keyswitches, but in the end there were far fewer of them. I love having real-time control over vibrato; I love not mucking around with repetition samples, like the other VSL string libraries require.

So, my very premature opinion, based on one soft, lyrical piece, is that Synchron Strings is a major advance over previous VSL string libraries - enough of an advance that I'd classify it as "almost meets expectations." But I may modify that view when some piece requires a nice light spiccato, or relies heavily on sforzato, which I agree with others sounds pretty unconvincing.

Any change as radical as this one is bound to be accompanied by some missteps - and VSL has made things much worse with this library's piecemeal and agonizingly slow roll-out. Besides the near-nonfunctionality of the original version, there are now the countless hours people will have to spend porting their Synchron Strings sequences from VI/VI Pro to Synchron Player. Selling the library at full price before the player was ready created a vast pool of ill-will that's going to be hard to overcome.

--Mark Arnest

2021 Macbook Pro M1 Max, 64GB RAM, OS 12.2 / 2013 Mac Pro, 3.5 GHz 6-Core, 64GB RAM, OS 11
/ DP / Logic X / Dorico / Camelot
Posted on Tue, Jun 26 2018 08:18
by Veola
Joined on Thu, Jun 30 2016, Posts 15

Sorry, only got the standard one.

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Veola Go to Quoted Post

(Dear VSL, I happy to receive a Synchon Strings product that lives up to the hype you made around it, a refund or exchange for another library)

If you have the full version, I'll buy it from you (or anyone else reading this).  We can go to VSL together to organize the license xfer.  I've got the standard and just am interested in those additional mics. 

Posted on Tue, Jun 26 2018 08:28
by Veola
Joined on Thu, Jun 30 2016, Posts 15

I am not a pro, so could be wrong here. But the Synchron lib sounds to thin, almost like a chamber. Appassionata sounds fuller to me. Perhaps Synchron lib was played in in a very precise way with not enough  variation?

The general sound of the Synchron lib has potenial, I am not deniying it. But at the moment it does not set a new standard. It just a normal lib not worth buying if you already own the popular ones out there. That is why we are dissapointed and frusted, especially after the hype VSL made.

(It would be good to hear other demos) 

 

Originally Posted by: Beat Kaufmann Go to Quoted Post

I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".

But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music

I recommend everyone to listen to a bit of film music on youtube and listen to the Legatos. There is not much left of the intimate "transition noise", as we are e.g. used to from the Chamberstrings. Listen for example to this track: https://youtu.be/QrhqkEHep88

 

I believe that such music can be played without a problem with the sync strings.  But try such a piece with the rather thin sound of the Dimension strings...  So it certainly depends on what one uses the Synchrons or the Dimensions. The right library for the right music so to say. Furthermore, I noticed when trying out, that you can make incredible pressure with these strings. There's a lot of potential in that. Unfortunately, I have not had time to try out the library with the new player until now, so I'm with "fahl5": First we have to learn how to use this library properly and also for what kind of music style.
Likewise with this library, too, one can combine them e.g. with the solo strings. The contrast is so great that this probably leads to results as in André Rieu's music:
https://youtu.be/yjY-mV0mnqs

I claim to be able to produce such a similar result with the solo violin and the SynchronStrings 1 as well...

All the best

Beat

Posted on Tue, Jun 26 2018 08:41
by mobileavatar
Joined on Mon, Jul 25 2011, Posts 64

Originally Posted by: pianoguy Go to Quoted Post

I'm with fahl5 on this - the Synchron Player works so differently than VI or VI Pro that few of us have sufficient experience yet to express a deeply informed opinion as to the library's ultimate quality.

We do not have the experience but VSL should. By now, they should have many convincing audio demos to clear our doubts. After all it is their product. VSL should convince us it's worthwhile to spend the time and not wasting it. Apart from us being the early adopters who purchased the product purely out of faith in the VSL brand, I am sure they want to attract new customers as well.

The fact there is no convincing demo... it's already suspicious enough.

The fact VSL has been very quiet after last week release, it's even more suspicious.

Don't be surprised when they announce new product(s) in July... as a way to divert our attention.

Posted on Tue, Jun 26 2018 15:26
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 486

My 2 cents in this thread. Today I worked on a piece with much legato. It was first searching how to get things the way I want it. I discovered the edit page. By giving attack a number beneath zero (I did the ultimate, -2), the gap between notes is deminished. By increasing the sustain I discovered another way to make the legato more smooth.
Furthermore I used the polyphone legato mode to have the opportunity to overlap tones when needed. The result of one short melody line (just a few notes) I send here. For me this legato is good, perhaps for others not, I don't know of course.

File Attachment(s):
LegatoU0020violinsU00201U0020SynchronU0020Player.wav (3,172kb) downloaded 105 time(s).
MMKA attached the following image(s):
editU0020example.JPG (15kb) downloaded 10 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
Posted on Wed, Jun 27 2018 02:11
by holywilly
Joined on Mon, Jul 08 2013, Posts 68

Originally Posted by: MMKA Go to Quoted Post

My 2 cents in this thread. Today I worked on a piece with much legato. It was first searching how to get things the way I want it. I discovered the edit page. By giving attack a number beneath zero (I did the ultimate, -2), the gap between notes is deminished. By increasing the sustain I discovered another way to make the legato more smooth.
Furthermore I used the polyphone legato mode to have the opportunity to overlap tones when needed. The result of one short melody line (just a few notes) I send here. For me this legato is good, perhaps for others not, I don't know of course.

Thank you for sharing this. This mod really makes the Synchron Strings legato sounds it should be!!

Posted on Wed, Jun 27 2018 02:47
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 449

Originally Posted by: mobileavatar Go to Quoted Post

We do not have the experience but VSL should. By now, they should many convincing audio demos to clear our doubts. After all it is their product. VSL should convince us it's worthwhile to spend the time and not wasting it. Apart from us being the early adopters who purchased the product purely out of faith in the VSL brand, I am sure they want to attract news customers as well.

The fact there is no convincing demo... it's already suspicious enough.

The fact VSL has been very quiet after last week release, it's even more suspicious.

Don't be surprised when they announce new product(s) in July... as a way to divert our attention.

Exactly.  

VSL needs to post some great sounding new Synchron Strings Demos, produced using the new Synchron Player, where are they ?  Nothing to hear so far. Maybe they need some more time, hopefully not a few months until we get to hear some new demos. But if they do post some new demos that sound wonderful, showing the quality of the legatos, shorts, longs, and other articulations, that will make us go Wow !  Is that Synchron Strings Playing ? then this will change everything as far as the negative perception, or aura this library has surrounding it. 

Posted on Thu, Jul 05 2018 20:16
by DeviousKid45
Joined on Thu, Apr 28 2011, Canada, Posts 1
Originally Posted by: Beat Kaufmann Go to Quoted Post
I think that some are disappointed because they were expecting the Chamberstrings or another Dimensionstrings library - now simply integrated with "space".
But this is a string orchestra of great proportions - similar to the Appassionata Strings and not for playing Baroque Music


It's not even Appassionata Strings. It's more akin to Orchestral Strings, like the basic building block.
Posted on Thu, Jul 05 2018 22:15
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

Originally Posted by: muziksculp Go to Quoted Post

VSL needs to post some great sounding new Synchron Strings Demos, produced using the new Synchron Player, where are they ?  Nothing to hear so far. Maybe they need some more time, hopefully not a few months until we get to hear some new demos. But if they do post some new demos that sound wonderful, showing the quality of the legatos, shorts, longs, and other articulations, that will make us go Wow !  Is that Synchron Strings Playing ? then this will change everything as far as the negative perception, or aura this library has surrounding it. 

Don't know what you're expecting. You already know for a fact that the Synchron Player changed nothing about the samples, the sound or the scripting. Why are some new demos miraculously supposed to convince you of something that the already existing ones didn't?

Really don't understand your position here. You got the library. Install it already and try it out for yourself! Otherwise, let it go. Not trying to be argumentative - I genuinely don't understand your position.

Posted on Thu, Jul 05 2018 22:27
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire Go to Quoted Post

Don't know what you're expecting. You already know for a fact that the Synchron Player changed nothing about the samples, the sound or the scripting. Why are some new demos miraculously supposed to convince you of something that the already existing ones didn't?

Really don't understand your position here. You got the library. Install it already and try it out for yourself! Otherwise, let it go. Not trying to be argumentative - I genuinely don't understand your position.

Ok than to me it seems that you have still explore the Synchron-Player a bit more. (Even if the Support is really horrible lazy) The Answer is: You cant use the Library with VI the way you can with the SyPl.

And yes after the development Work is done it is up to those who care about the m,usic to explore it.

Still my humble opinion is that it still needs it's time to adapt kind of the musical language developed with previous Libraries and Plkayers to the new one. Than we will see, what it really is about the new Library and its ambitious Player.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Thu, Jul 05 2018 22:30
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 595
Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: muziksculp Go to Quoted Post

VSL needs to post some great sounding new Synchron Strings Demos, produced using the new Synchron Player, where are they ? Nothing to hear so far. Maybe they need some more time, hopefully not a few months until we get to hear some new demos. But if they do post some new demos that sound wonderful, showing the quality of the legatos, shorts, longs, and other articulations, that will make us go Wow ! Is that Synchron Strings Playing ? then this will change everything as far as the negative perception, or aura this library has surrounding it.

Don't know what you're expecting. You already know for a fact that the Synchron Player changed nothing about the samples, the sound or the scripting. Why are some new demos miraculously supposed to convince you of something that the already existing ones didn't?
Really don't understand your position here. You got the library. Install it already and try it out for yourself! Otherwise, let it go. Not trying to be argumentative - I genuinely don't understand your position.


He's been offered this advice numerous times, but continues to stand firm with his, shall we say, unique perspective. I can't fathom purchasing something of this value and not bother even installing it. Sometimes I think there are people who are more about collecting the tools and talking about them, than using them. If music is a spectator sport for you, save the money, and simply enjoy the work of others...but for goodness sake, give the endless repetitive requests for new demos a rest! Just my two cents.
Posted on Sun, Jul 08 2018 16:23
by belkina
Joined on Sun, Jun 13 2004, Montreal, Posts 502

I must say I agree with fahl5. This is a huge new library, there are lots of new features, and it has depth. I would not presume to judge such a serious undertaking without at least doing a whole project with it, which is what I am doing at the moment. And so far I like it. I'll have more to say, but not before I know it MUCH better than I do at this point. When I first started using VIPro there were lots of things I didn't see the reason for, but now I understand them. I'm sure the same thing will happen with the Synchron player.

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