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Questions about Synchronized Chamber Strings
Last post Thu, Jul 19 2018 by The Minstrel, 39 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 11:49
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12786

Hi Ben, 

Sorry about that. Here you go: 

1. If understood correctly, Syn. Cham. Strings are re-edited dry samples + matching IR.
   a) The IR is ony stereo and so the output is only stereo
=> Correct

   b) No (control for) different IR mic-positions like with the other Syn. products
=> Correct. 

2. I have the Chamber Strings and MIR Pro + Synchron Room-Pack. The main advantages if I upgrade are
   a) access to the new synchron player
   b) re-masterd samples and more velocity layers
   c) any other advantages?
=> Compatibility with Synchron Strings I in preset structure and velocity mapping.  

3. Are there any plans to provide jsut the reworked samples as update to the Chamber Strings Library?
=> No. 

EDIT: the manual should be available to all users right here

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 12:14
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 435

Originally Posted by: ddunn Go to Quoted Post

I can't wait till Dimension Strings receive this treatment, although the huge sample set make it an altogether

larger task.  

I should like this very much, but I think, this only would work very well, if humanization is implemented in the Synchron Player. One of the things that gives the dimension strings the very lively performance, is that you can give every player his own little imperfections, just as in the real world. 

Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 13:27
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 883

Thank you, Paul!

Ben
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 13:31
by ddunn
Joined on Fri, Aug 03 2007, Posts 82

Yes, absolutely!!  Especially the tuning.  It's one of the most important things that contribute to realism.  Wish I had a second set!  

Thanks again VSL.  I feel lucky that there is a company in my lifetime willing to take on these sampling experiments.  

Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 23:46
by kamil
Joined on Mon, Feb 23 2015, Posts 23
Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamil Go to Quoted Post
Thank you fatis12. That is mean the old library (VI) it is better, (in term of general use). And the synchron string I library is a backward step. Because they (i.e. VSL) limit of how to use it. Simply I can not use the synchron library with different room in Mir Pro, only with synchron stage room. I hope I can explain my opinion with my humble language, however I wish I was wrong. Kind regards Yasir

Well, we must be carefull when we talk about rating "better" or "worse":
for instance your point is pretty clear: if you want to be free of placing the instruments around on stage, and get very different ambience, of course this task is easier and more effective with VI and MIR Pro.
Synchron is designed to always use Synchorn stage acoustic: but they are very flexible acoustics, in perfect line with the practice of orchestral recording for Media production scoring (e.g. movies, TV, videogames etc.). To make them flexible they use multi-mic approach and digital reverb instead of Convolution Impulse repsonses.
The result is a more realistic depth because the early refelctions are very wet and real, always better than simulated virtual reflections. Anyway it's a matter of taste, and I agree that the flexibility of VI + MIR Pro is an unmatched value.
The SYNCHRONIZED products can be used in the very same way of the VI series, from a MIR Pro compatibility point of view, by the way. The limitations are for SYNCHRON series only.
Other people here talk about different aspects (e.g. Synchron player advantage and limitations) and again is a matter of opinions and practice: Synchron Player is very powerful and does lot of interesting things, and SYNCHRONIZED version of Chamber Strings is providing several nice features (e.g. consistency of dynamics, and some performance of repetitions improved in a single patch) but of course the VI Pro has a lot more features non existing yet in Synchron player (e.g. humanization, sequencer matrix, multy patch playback, and lot more).


Thank you fatis12_24918
I appreciate your time and your answer. Now the things it is more clearer.

Regards,
Yasir
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 23:54
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 549
Originally Posted by: ddunn Go to Quoted Post
Yes, absolutely!! Especially the tuning. It's one of the most important things that contribute to realism.


Did I learn this lesson yesterday when a string trio performed my works :)
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 01:20
by strytten
Joined on Sat, Jan 06 2007, Posts 66

I must say that my enthusiasm over the recent Synchron products is, well, muted... no con sordinos which is a "must have" for me. Between that and the disappointing legato intervals in Synchron strings I am much more cautious and concerned about buying more of these products.

Steve Trytten
All VSL strings, winds, and most others, Vienna Imperial, VE Pro, MIR, Protools 10.3.5, Mac Mntn Lion 12 core, LASS, Ivory, Kontakt 5, Spitfire Sable Strings
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 07:41
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: strytten Go to Quoted Post

I must say that my enthusiasm over the recent Synchron products is, well, muted... no con sordinos which is a "must have" for me. Between that and the disappointing legato intervals in Synchron strings I am much more cautious and concerned about buying more of these products.

Top be fair you should consider

a) VSL has been always the only Producer who provided a complete Set of muted articulations as Volume II of Chamber, Solo, Appassionata and Solostrings. So you cant judge the whole propject from just the first Volume

b) what the other Competitors provide is either just the Filtertrick (which you already can do now with Synmchron-Strings I by simply closing LPF12) or even worser they provide in general just one or two sordinio articulation making it nearly impossible to work musical reasonable with sordino passages which are anything else than just smooth stringchords,

In my humble opinion (after having already produced nearly an hour of ambnitious classical music with SyStr.) there is no real evidence for any substancial lack of legato, while it of course it may be that some people who didn't worked yet that seriously with that library might be the victime of their missing expierience to get out of it what they are looking for.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 11:25
by Sovereign
Joined on Sun, Nov 05 2017, Posts 19

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
In my humble opinion (after having already produced nearly an hour of ambnitious classical music with SyStr.) there is no real evidence for any substancial lack of legato, while it of course it may be that some people who didn't worked yet that seriously with that library might be the victime of their missing expierience to get out of it what they are looking for.
Oh puh-lease, cut the crap with this nonsense. The legato is - at best - sorely disappointing. No other library I know has received such an amount of criticism over this at VI-Control. Shifting the blame to others ("victime of their missing expierience" [sic]) is sheer bigotry.

Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 11:39
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 533

Originally Posted by: Sovereign Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
In my humble opinion (after having already produced nearly an hour of ambnitious classical music with SyStr.) there is no real evidence for any substancial lack of legato, while it of course it may be that some people who didn't worked yet that seriously with that library might be the victime of their missing expierience to get out of it what they are looking for.
Oh puh-lease, cut the crap with this nonsense. The legato is - at best - sorely disappointing. No other library I know has received such an amount of criticism over this at VI-Control. Shifting the blame to others ("victime of their missing expierience" [sic]) is sheer bigotry.

Maybe, but the SY-Chamber Strings can cover/mask the sound of SS1 if you do not like it.
I do not like the general sound of SS1 too - But I think that the SS1-sound can play a big role in the mix because of it's thickness and power. So, from a technical point of view the Synchrion Strings are still very usable in the mix. And VSL did the right thing with the SY Chamber Strings. 

(A different topic are muted Strings. It would not make sense to purchase a second Library which has to be covered by a VI-product. And espcially muted Strings are all about "beauty". I hope that VSL will catch the muted sound in a different way.)

Ethereum rules ! The BTC is my friend :)

To the Moon !! 🚀🌙
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 12:08
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: Sovereign Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
In my humble opinion (after having already produced nearly an hour of ambnitious classical music with SyStr.) there is no real evidence for any substancial lack of legato, while it of course it may be that some people who didn't worked yet that seriously with that library might be the victime of their missing expierience to get out of it what they are looking for.
Oh puh-lease, cut the crap with this nonsense. The legato is - at best - sorely disappointing. No other library I know has received such an amount of criticism over this at VI-Control. Shifting the blame to others ("victime of their missing expierience" [sic]) is sheer bigotry.

Who of those who crab as if they had no other Job, does know exactly what he is talking about? What exactly have they done before judging that harsh?

I know that you can get pretty nice Legato out of this Library. If you dont, I fear you just havn't tried seriouisly. 

However it is of course not the only Library in the last time "who has received" in the Forum you named (or let us better say was victime of) excessive harsh and emotionalised critics. I can show you even worser "critics" of the new Hollywood Choir, meanwhile it is still one of the best wordbuilding Choir on the market and of course still better than his already market leading predecessor. The VI-Guys didn't care much about and ranted as if they got payed for. The Hans Zimmer Strings likewise got  on other Sites likewise tons of fierce reactions as if it were not the product of music to discuss, but a battle of hatespeech to win.

Sorry I do not count that much on those who seem to prefer to troll around instead of just practically try to explore what you can achieve.

And no, it is in no way "bigot" to execrate such kind of "discussions" as harsh as poor of real substance. No one has really any benefit from that. Sometimes it is a quite telltale sign just to look how long and how much those posters have been active here or whereever. I at least know quite well what I am talking about. Thats why those who dont really doesn't impress me that much.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 15:22
by strytten
Joined on Sat, Jan 06 2007, Posts 66

Thank you fahl5, I appreciate your comments. As with most things in life, we all win if we can stay positive. As for con sordinos, hopefully Vienna will deliver additional packages. As for legato, are you willing to share what you're doing to get a good legato sound? (or if you've already done that, provide a link?)

Thanks!

Steve Trytten
All VSL strings, winds, and most others, Vienna Imperial, VE Pro, MIR, Protools 10.3.5, Mac Mntn Lion 12 core, LASS, Ivory, Kontakt 5, Spitfire Sable Strings
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 15:51
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

If anyone have had the chance to listen all the 30 minutes of my Tschaikowsky Serenade op.48 there you can find  already a couple of very different examples of low, slow, fast, slur. large singing etc. Legatos included always in its certain original musical context.

What i can hear there is imho far from justifying any of those extreme lamentations about the alleged Legato Problem. Moreover I wonder if any other exsisting Library would provide such a versatile variety of reasonable Legatotyps. Presumably there is no other Library at all on the m,arket which would be ready to cope that well with the extremly brilliant and manifold demands of that wonderful composition. (If I am wrong I am pretty interested to hear the better example.  Come on happy hypercritics, dont be lazy, just show what you are abkle to.)

However the "downside" I see (especially for those who dont spend the time for getting familiar with) is:

All those many options give always the chance to chose the wrong one. And yes I also would not yet pretend to master every single option up to its most ideal usage. But before lamenting, I see there is enough I can do to explore what is under the hood of this vast Library. (this is at least less boring )

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 16:17
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 307
LOL 😂 Now the dialog is getting hilarious.

I can immagine the face of Paul, and the great fast reading skills he has developed...
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 16:50
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
LOL 😂 Now the dialog is getting hilarious.

I can immagine the face of Paul, and the great fast reading skills he has developed...

Is there any perceivable reasonable constructive relation of this posting to the subject of this thread at all?

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 20:19
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

If anyone have had the chance to listen all the 30 minutes of my Tschaikowsky Serenade op.48 there you can find  already a couple of very different examples of low, slow, fast, slur. large singing etc. Legatos included always in its certain original musical context.

What i can hear there is imho far from justifying any of those extreme lamentations about the alleged Legato Problem. Moreover I wonder if any other exsisting Library would provide such a versatile variety of reasonable Legatotyps. Presumably there is no other Library at all on the m,arket which would be ready to cope that well with the extremly brilliant and manifold demands of that wonderful composition. (If I am wrong I am pretty interested to hear the better example.  Come on happy hypercritics, dont be lazy, just show what you are abkle to.)

However the "downside" I see (especially for those who dont spend the time for getting familiar with) is:

All those many options give always the chance to chose the wrong one. And yes I also would not yet pretend to master every single option up to its most ideal usage. But before lamenting, I see there is enough I can do to explore what is under the hood of this vast Library. (this is at least less boring )

Comedy gold 😂

Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 20:33
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 549
<p>I do believe Tchaikovsky is rolling over in his...never mind&nbsp;<img src="/community/Images/Emoticons/emotion-5.gif" alt=""></p>
<p>I'm reminded of a famous movie line from "A Few Good Men". "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! -Jack Nicolson</p>

Edit: the above comment was made in gest and based purely on my initial reaction to the opening of the Tchaikovsky rendition that is supposed to be an exemplary demonstration of Synchron strings, and for which I feel falls far short of such an assertion...only my opinion, of course!
Posted on Tue, Jul 17 2018 21:03
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Obviously this thread is not at all about "comedy" nor about what ever you might "believe" about Tchaikowsky. But if there is really nothing more substancial you can contribute - your problem.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Thu, Jul 19 2018 09:24
by The Minstrel
Joined on Fri, Oct 16 2009, Sweden, Posts 98

Reading up on the forum posts regarding the legato transitions in Synchron Strings, this is obviously an infected topic. From the first demos of Synchron Strings I heard, I’ve found the legatos unconvincing, which is why I decided to pass on the library. This is prior to reading any comments on the topic, so my mind was not biased in any negative way prior to listening to the demos.

Regarding the rendition of Tschaikowsky Serenade op.48, I’m sorry, but as good as it is, I can hear no reason to reconsider my decision not to purchase Synchron Strings. To my ears, the strings doesn’t sound very natural, the legato transition reminds me of the scripted legato from old orchestral libraries. In my humble opinion, they have a kind of synthish quality to them. Please don’t take this as any personal criticism, all demos of Syncrhon Strings I’ve heard has, to my ears, suffered from this.

On to the disclaimer. Writing music is just a hobby of mine and I’m not a professional. I could surely not put together a better mockup myself, so please feel free to disregard my impressions as unqualified. With that being said, I’ve always been holding VSL in very high regard, and I still do. Their software is hands down the best there is, and I have nothing but praise for all the VSL libraries I own. In my humble opinion, it seems to me they didn’t quite hit the mark with the legatos in Synchron Strings, but that is just my two cents, and everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion.

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