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How to improve Synchron Strings I?
Last post Fri, Aug 17 2018 by daviddln, 114 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 09:35
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 350

Not worth it.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 09:57
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 953

Since Synchron Strings are imho defenitly "worth" to be improved here are some of my suggestions what I think might improve the Synchron Strings.

- I fear one of the most important aspects to work on are the default settings, that means what a user hear, when just loading the Library without any individual tweaks or adjustments.

- why for instance does nearly all EQ's emphazise exclusivly the higher ranges, while supressing nearly always a good part of the original basis of the tone?

- why for instance should the first available legatotype be"soft" which might be nice for very slow tempos but does not sound that convincing in normal tempo especially compared to normal. Why forinstance is the "auto speed" not the default Legato making sure that withouit any tweaks the Legato would be the mostz appropriate for the certain tempo played?

- Why is Lyrical Vibrato the default setting, which agaion might be great for low dynamic and/or slow movement, while the regulare Vibrato seems to me in most other cases much nearer to what one might expect as kind of default sound.

- I know the first Volume is nothing but the first step of what will come and I also know that even if we are used to look for the whole range of different Articulationtypes VSL has ever provided and often do not expect that many Subtypes in Synchron strings are already integrated in the behavior of the existing Patches. Nerverthe less. I currently see the following "gaps" which might be wort to complete

- Of course con sordino, harmonics and sul pont should and will proably come in further Volumes.

- The Dynamics and Sfz and non legatlo patches are currently restricted on kind of extreme types, which for themself are great (the "supershort" are brrilliant!) but still dont cover the need of more moderated types

- non legato and Portato patches still seem to be usefull

- more sustained Sfz would be great

- the long cres. and decresc. are impressing for themself but in normal use types of different length and of course different shorter seem to me much more needed.

- I still love very much the realism and usability of the old pfp patches in different length, which currently could only be replaced by meticoulus CC Expression + Vel-Xfade Editing

- And Yes I would like to have another  kind of more passionate Vibrato like we have even two more in the Appasionata strings. I do not miss the large section size, but those more intensive vibratos would be a great addition.

Just my humble opinion what I like to see worked on in future updates and/or further Releases.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3648 mp3 with a whole Week (=7 Days /=171 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de
a) ...Synchron-Strings explored in 40 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Strings.

b) ...Synchron-Steinway explored in 48 mp3 with nearly three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 18th 19th 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Steinway.
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 10:50
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 262
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
<p>
Originally Posted by: kamil Go to Quoted Post
Ffahl5 ... Ik denk niet dat er reden is voor dit debat.<br><br>Google translate 😜.<br><br><br>"I do not think there is any reason for this debate to be so."<br>With my all respect to you all.<br><br>Regards ,<br>Yasir
</p>
<p>You are absolutly right <img src="/community/Images/Emoticons/emotion-21.gif" alt=""></p>


Dear Steffen,

So let us know about this curious fact: you wrote very often long philosophical explanation about your own interest, that is NOT realism, but some kind of ideal performance, and is NOT precise care for details, because you like rendering huge projects in very short time, and so of course you don’t have the material time of refining details at all.

This is pretty evident in your production, that is always very far from being any close to realistic, and always alternate some little good phrasing to long mechanic and midish sections. I don’t argue about your choice, you always point that you do it for your own fun, and it’s fair enough.

But actually, since your scope is just having fun producing low detail long ideal electronic renderings ( sounding more or less like old ringtones) then why do you pretend to discuss details about realism and sound, that you always say are out of scope for you, and they obviously are listening to your music?

There’s something weird every time you start arguing about sound, realism and precision, with people outperfoming you on sound, realism and precision. Just curiosity, before I follow William’s theory.

All the best, Fabio
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:04
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 953

Dear Fabio,

This topic is called " How to improve Synchron Strings I?"

Do not disgrrace your self with simply ignoring that.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3648 mp3 with a whole Week (=7 Days /=171 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de
a) ...Synchron-Strings explored in 40 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Strings.

b) ...Synchron-Steinway explored in 48 mp3 with nearly three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 18th 19th 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Steinway.
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:10
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 350

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: kamil Go to Quoted Post
Ffahl5 ... Ik denk niet dat er reden is voor dit debat.

Google translate 😜.


"I do not think there is any reason for this debate to be so."
With my all respect to you all.

Regards ,
Yasir

You are absolutly right



Dear Steffen,

So let us know about this curious fact: you wrote very often long philosophical explanation about your own interest, that is NOT realism, but some kind of ideal performance, and is NOT precise care for details, because you like rendering huge projects in very short time, and so of course you don’t have the material time of refining details at all.

This is pretty evident in your production, that is always very far from being any close to realistic, and always alternate some little good phrasing to long mechanic and midish sections. I don’t argue about your choice, you always point that you do it for your own fun, and it’s fair enough.

But actually, since your scope is just having fun producing low detail long ideal electronic renderings ( sounding more or less like old ringtones) then why do you pretend to discuss details about realism and sound, that you always say are out of scope for you, and they obviously are listening to your music?

There’s something weird every time you start arguing about sound, realism and precision, with people outperfoming you on sound, realism and precision. Just curiosity, before I follow William’s theory.

All the best, Fabio

 

+1, spot on. As is William.

Unfortunately I think only VSL can improve SyS - and that will require huge amounts of new recordings. Let's face it, it's not gonna happen. But hey, sometime in the future they will do another string library with the same "bread and butter" articulations and hopefully it will turn out better! Maybe even an upcoming sordino strings library will be performed with less attention to "perfection" and with a better working legato concept. Not holding my breath but I won't rule it out. And I think they are working on sordinos, right?

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:14
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 350

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Dear Fabio,

This topic is called " How to improve Synchron Strings I?"

Do not disgrrace your self with simply ignoring that.

I can see why you don't like this thread turning into a Steffen Fahl bash fest. But trying to reverse it acting like a policeman in here will not make you feel better. So why not just ignore the plethora of anti-Steffen posts and stick to posting about the subject matter.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:19
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 262
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
<p>Dear Fabio,</p>
<p>This topic is called " <a id="forum_ctl03_TopicLink" class="HeaderTopicLink" href="https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t49083-How-to-improve-Synchron-Strings-I"><span id="forum_ctl03_TopicTitle">How to improve Synchron Strings I?</span></a>"</p>
<p>Do not disgrrace your self with simply ignoring that.</p>



Definitely! That’s exactly the reason for my comment. You argue about details and sound of synchron strings with passionate ( and often irritating) criticism for others contribution, while its obvious you are not interested and not expert in sound and details. So the whole work you did with synchron strings is a very good example of what should be improved in synchron strings, despite you desperately stating the opposite.

The funny detail being you avoid answer and ask to be on topic every time you are in trouble, but you are indulgent with yourself off=topics when you write your sarcastic and sad attacks to other’s opinions about... (everything lol) ok, about how to improve Synchron Strings!
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:25
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 262
Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post
<p>
Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post
</p>
<p>Dear Fabio,</p>
<p>This topic is called " <a id="forum_ctl03_TopicLink" class="HeaderTopicLink" href="https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t49083-How-to-improve-Synchron-Strings-I"><span id="forum_ctl03_TopicTitle">How to improve Synchron Strings I?</span></a>"</p>
<p>Do not disgrrace your self with simply ignoring that.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I can see why you don't like this thread turning into a Steffen&nbsp;Fahl bash fest. But trying to reverse it acting like a policeman in here will not make you feel better. So why not just ignore the plethora of anti-Steffen posts and stick to posting about the subject matter.</p>



You are absolutely right. But there is time for ignoring, and there is time for reaction. An open discussion is made of human relationship, and sometime form is also important. Personally I never intend to be police, the opposite I’m just my self talking to a guy saying something surprising to me. For the rest I apologize for the off topic pollution. Now back on topic.
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:30
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 953

Dear Fabio if your well "education" and "profesisonal interest" dont reach further than to share your personal aggrresions for other, than please open your own bashing thread. Obviously here are enough "professionals" who have "professional" as they are nothing better to do and will be happy to join it.

Did you seriously think there is any need to answer your weird personal insults when the question here is about Synchron Strings.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3648 mp3 with a whole Week (=7 Days /=171 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de
a) ...Synchron-Strings explored in 40 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Strings.

b) ...Synchron-Steinway explored in 48 mp3 with nearly three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 18th 19th 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Steinway.
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:54
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 953

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post

So why not just ignore the plethora of anti-Steffen posts and stick to posting about the subject matter.

I already did just reacting on your last for good reasons self deleted posting. And as "professional" all currently active members here are. None of them even you obviously were not able to answered only ón one single suggestion. But prefer bashing me now just for I reminded everybody how this thread is called.

Wow what a rude and horrobloe arrogant crime to remind the Topic of this thread. Of course again will someone comment in a long posting how arrogant this is and further "intelligent professionals" of that type will reply with their +1 to underline how real arrogant and cruel it is to remind the Topic and how much this deserves to get bashed as fierce as ever possible.

Is that ("kindergarden" as Dietzu will presumably put it) really what you think this Forum is about. Is that what you really think is of Benefit for anyone at all.

Wake up show that you are already a reasonable adult and are able to reflect on what really might help before posting.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3648 mp3 with a whole Week (=7 Days /=171 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de
a) ...Synchron-Strings explored in 40 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Strings.

b) ...Synchron-Steinway explored in 48 mp3 with nearly three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 18th 19th 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Steinway.
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:54
by 9u10m
Joined on Thu, Dec 04 2008, Posts 69

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post

Unfortunately I think only VSL can improve SyS - and that will require huge amounts of new recordings. Let's face it, it's not gonna happen.

I certainly wouldn't settle for that.

When I am commissioned for a project and the client thinks it needs rework --whatever the reason, we talk about it and I usually get back to said project, according to what was discussed. Sometimes I feel the client is wrong because they don't know much about music. But they pay me, I deliver.

I don't think VSL has ever released a product that raised so many eyebrows. Those who voiced their concerns here and elsewhere spent money, sometimes long before the product was released. Lots of them have already had the chance to use a few other strings libraries, and thus usually provide VSL with informed, knowledgeable feedback. Sadly, what they have been getting in return so far is silence, and in my view an opportunity to raise more eyebrows (Synchronized Chamber Strings). 

The competition aside, everyone wants Synchron Strings to be a great product, which at this point I think it is not. Almost all of their other libraries are, and the rest of the Synchron line certainly is. So yes, I hope VSL do consider recording new material that fixes the library's shortcomings, because any other approach will sound like a slap in their customers' faces.

I'm back to work!

Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 12:04
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 322

When you can't write music and your mockups of existing works of actual musicians sound like Orchestron, I guess puffing up on forums and harassing strangers is all you got left.

Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 12:09
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 953

Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire Go to Quoted Post

When you can't write music and your mockups of existing works of actual musicians sound like Orchestron, I guess puffing up on forums and harassing strangers is all you got left.

Ok its always courageous if you talk so frankly and public about your own problems as musician you presumably want to be.

But honestly in this thread I would be much more interested, to hear your opinion about my suggestions how to improve the Synchron Strings. If you are at least able to do that.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3648 mp3 with a whole Week (=7 Days /=171 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de
a) ...Synchron-Strings explored in 40 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Strings.

b) ...Synchron-Steinway explored in 48 mp3 with nearly three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 18th 19th 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Steinway.
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 12:49
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 472

 First, indulge a little further "off-topic" discussion:  Fahl5 actually banned my IP address from his website! lol  Seriously.  If anyone doubted the authenticity of William's "analysis" of Fahl's character, read the following:  Malignant Narcissism:  Kernberg described malignant narcissism as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and egosyntonic aggression. Other symptoms may include an absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity).  Incidentally, Mr. Fahl's command of technology is as apt as his command of midi programming:  It took me all of two seconds to use a proxy server to visit his site after "being banned."  Of course, there's no reason to visit unless I want to hear, as has already been noted by others, midi renditions of beautiful music made sterile, unfeeling, and devoid of any musicality.

Now to keep it "subject-based":

Everything about Synchron Strings, positive and negative, has been stated ad nauseum on this and other forums for months.  Demos have been made, listeners have made judgments on the success or failure of said demos.  The common criticisms revolve around the quality of legato transitions and the overly synthetic sound.  VSL has not commented, and when you ask "how to improve Synchron Strings", they are the only people capable of improving them...not you, not me, nor any other user.  They know what people think, and if they believe they can improve the library, they will do so.  I suspect though, they will do it silently, behind the scenes.  They clearly are averse to any public acknowledgement of the criticism.  It's possible that they are sincerely loving the way the project turned out, and would be mercilessly bashed for expressing their satisfaction in light of the mob-like hostility.  It's also possible that they agree with the criticism, but believe that as soon as they acknowledge that, people will all be demanding refunds, credits, or other concessions.  So, I propose the discussion on improving synchron strings ends, as nothing further can develop without the VSL team taking action.

Cheers!

Dave

www.dearvillainmusic.com - music for live performance by David Carovillano

www.acclarion.ca - concert accordion & clarinet duo
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 13:33
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 953

OMG Acclarion you do have obviously utterly no fear to disgrace yourself.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3648 mp3 with a whole Week (=7 Days /=171 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de
a) ...Synchron-Strings explored in 40 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Strings.

b) ...Synchron-Steinway explored in 48 mp3 with nearly three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 18th 19th 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Steinway.
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 13:37
by HBen
Joined on Mon, Oct 16 2017, Posts 8

I am tired of all this discussions, as VSL remain silent with even not a single word.

I really love to see an upgrade version such as Synchron Strings 1 v2.0, and I wish VSL can fix problems in its current version.

If it needs extra time, money and work, I think it can be done simultaneously during the process of making Synchron Strings 2. During this process, VSL can gather players together and it will be some overtime work, but I believe it's worth it, to save the VSL brands and Synchron Product Line. Otherwise, the whole product line is crippled.

Well, if nothing further can be done to improve and upgrade Synchron String I, then I guess I am ended up here.

For strings, I will just choose other companies and other products.

On our Chinese forum, as far as I know, customers from China who expressed their opinion on Synchron Strings I are completely negative. No one here in China would recommend others to purchase Synchron Strings 1.

VSL, please face the problem, and fix it.That's all.

Yamaha CFX and Sychron String FX 1 are good, I bought them and I am going to use them when it is needed. These are good sides of the Synchron Product Line, good libraries and good job. But, Synchron Strings I, sad, frustrated, and I may only use Shorts articulations.

Multiply the cost of pre-order euro price by 8, we from China paid like 6000 RMB yuan to purchase SS1, it is equal to a month or two months salary for a common Chinese,  you can imagine how frustrated of these people feel. No chance to resell Synchron Strings 1, and no one is going to buy from them, as all negative comments spread, it's hard or impossible to find a buyer. Please, you guys can think about this and think it over.

I will not say anything more in this thread. Over.

Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 14:24
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1978

This is so hilarious, I won't post it, but you would not believe the ridiculous pm judge fahl5 sent me. 

Don't bother fahl5, I'm not reading your nonesense pm anymore, I have music to work on.

Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 14:45
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 350

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire Go to Quoted Post

When you can't write music and your mockups of existing works of actual musicians sound like Orchestron, I guess puffing up on forums and harassing strangers is all you got left.

Ok its always courageous if you talk so frankly and public about your own problems as musician you presumably want to be.

*rolls eyes*

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 15:41
by Piotr Katzpersky
Joined on Mon, May 11 2015, Polska, Posts 30

Wow, I mean, wow. This thread is... wow! I was reading it and laughing out loud, quite literaly. But then I noticed, that there is nothing funny in here:

- few talented / not talented people with valid / not valid opinions about flawed product,

- few people with valid / not valid opinions about opinions of the first few,

- one person who thinks everything is not valid until comes from that person.

Reading this thread is like trip to mental hospital. Seriously fucked up. I see no reason why anyone from VSL should join this discussion. And apparently every Synchron Strings thread turns into this kind of cock fight. 

And on the other side VSL is patching high end, 250GB library with bandaid called Synchronized Strings. For me this is basically saying - well, our humongous library is lacking (thin sound that needs to be layered, no divisi, no portamento, fewer velocity layers of chamber strings are as good as 8 of SyS).

I don't know how SyS sales, but looking it online brings only negativity. If it doesn't hurt sales cool for VSL (similarweb shows that traffic volumes are actually awesome). They are the winners here. If it does hurt sales - guys, start talking. Because if I were potential cumstomer and ended up here. Oooh boy.

Posted on Tue, Jul 31 2018 16:01
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 322

Piotr, you're probably right ... I would encourage VSL to delete this whole mess we all happily engaged in.

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