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LCR Approach
Last post Fri, Aug 10 2018 by crusoe, 9 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Aug 04 2018 08:28
by Francesco Pirrone
Joined on Tue, Sep 30 2014, Posts 239

Ok,

as I age, carry on with my endless search for clients and keep surviving on SE+Suite*, my musical research becomes more morbid and sterile.



Now seriously, I am just curious to know whether:

- you've ever tried an extreme LCR orchestral mix

- how do we turn our beautiful VSL samples into mono, should we wish to

Best regards

Francesco

*I love them anyway

Composer and Score Mixer -> www.francescopirrone.com
Posted on Sat, Aug 04 2018 10:16
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

Originally Posted by: Francesco Pirrone Go to Quoted Post

Ok,

as I age, carry on with my endless search for clients and keep surviving on SE+Suite*, my musical research becomes more morbid and sterile.



Now seriously, I am just curious to know whether:

- you've ever tried an extreme LCR orchestral mix

- how do we turn our beautiful VSL samples into mono, should we wish to

Best regards

Francesco

*I love them anyway

 

As I age I find it harder and harder to understand exactly what the hell it is people are talking about on the forum but I think I get the gist of what you're saying.

LCR:

I actually tried this approach once with VSL samples but the results were laughable to say the least.  Basically, it was like listening to the orchestra while sitting on the conductor's shoulders like a child.  It wasn't exactly the effect I was going for so I abandoned that method but it seemed like a good idea at the time

 However, your experiences may be different.

As for mono tracks, if you use a DAW you should be able to bounce the tracks to mono but I'm not sure if there's a way to do it within VIP or VIP Pro or notation software for that matter.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sat, Aug 04 2018 11:11
by Francesco Pirrone
Joined on Tue, Sep 30 2014, Posts 239

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

As I age I find it harder and harder to understand exactly what the hell it is people are talking about on the forum but I think I get the gist of what you're saying.

Are you suggesting that other users are becoming morbid?  

Ok, bad joke, sorry. 

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

LCR:

I actually tried this approach once with VSL samples but the results were laughable to say the least.  Basically, it was like listening to the orchestra while sitting on the conductor's shoulders like a child.  It wasn't exactly the effect I was going for so I abandoned that method but it seemed like a good idea at the time

 However, your experiences may be different.

As for mono tracks, if you use a DAW you should be able to bounce the tracks to mono but I'm not sure if there's a way to do it within VIP or VIP Pro or notation software for that matter.

 



Omg that's such a beautiful image you've depicted.

That's great, thanks for sharing your experience. I am just looking for odd/alternative ways to pan my orchestra when it comes to blending it with other elements. I might even consider having the orchestra as a whole mono-element to be moved freely across the stereo. I'll play with it and see what happens. 

Thanks!

Francesco

Composer and Score Mixer -> www.francescopirrone.com
Posted on Sun, Aug 05 2018 10:01
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

Well now that you mentioned it I have experimented with string ensemble panning.  For example, I once did a piece that had two viola sections panned hard left and hard right with a single violin section in the center.  I liked the results for that so much that I kept the template that I created.  The double viola sections tamed the normally screechy string sound but I find myself attracted to the darker string sounds anyway.

I think the viola(s) sound is one of the best kept secrets of the orchestra and I'm shocked that it isn't used more.  It's really a beautiful string sound.  On the one hand the violin can be too frantic and screechy while the cello, on the other, can be overly melancholy the viola is a happy inbetween.

Oh! I'm sorry, what was this thread about again  


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Aug 05 2018 10:03
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

 For example, I once did a piece that had two viola sections panned hard left and hard right with a single violin section in the center. 

Let me specify that this was for a Pop/Rock piece that I did and not orchestral per se.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Aug 05 2018 14:35
by Francesco Pirrone
Joined on Tue, Sep 30 2014, Posts 239

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

Oh! I'm sorry, what was this thread about again  



It was about me and the track I am working on at the moment.  A track that made me question everything......aahhahh

Seriously, what you said about the Violas and your template sounds very interesting. It's probably overlooked as an instruments but as far as I can say the most effective examples of orchestration I've ever heard make good use of the Violas.

Have you please got any links of your track handy?

Composer and Score Mixer -> www.francescopirrone.com
Posted on Mon, Aug 06 2018 09:45
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

It's not available online anywhere at the moment.  At least I don't think it is.  And if it is I'm not getting paid for it which is a problem.

I did it on my old system with the old VSL GUI. I'll have to dig it up on the old hard drive and post it.  It will take some time as I'm busy with other stuff at the moment.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Thu, Aug 09 2018 20:42
by Francesco Pirrone
Joined on Tue, Sep 30 2014, Posts 239

That's cool 

edit: well if you don't get paid it's not cool but I mean, take your time

Composer and Score Mixer -> www.francescopirrone.com
Posted on Fri, Aug 10 2018 18:08
by crusoe
Joined on Sat, Dec 26 2009, Posts 141

Personally I find the LCR approach problematic with the orchestral music, because the orchestra is not really a singer/background/drums thing. So many musical moments of equal importance could come from so many different spatial positions. For example, the main theme could be played by the 1st violins, and then by violas, and cellos, and then whatever else the composer came up with. In the "even" panorama this would sound natural, but if one of the sections is in center, it will sound more prominent and "important" than when played by the ones panned, and that might well be quite unintended by the composer.

Well, not to mention the  sitting on the conductor's shoulders sound picture, which is pretty hard to avoid :)

I thought I'd rant a bit more about the mix following the composer's ideas and reinforcing them, etc., and how Mahler's (for example) positioning can't be changed too much, but then I thought you know about that, so ... off the soapbox :) 

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