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CHANGE IN VSL'S DIRECTION ?
Last post Wed, Sep 05 2018 by Eptesicus, 81 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Jun 16 2018 20:47
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

thanks MMKA. I agree on the sounds being very compatible also.  

Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2018 17:19
by ZWaves
Joined on Mon, Dec 18 2017, Los Angeles, Ca, Posts 63

Today, Spitfire Audio anounced their 'new' direction (which has been crafted for the last two years now...)

Spitfire Studio Strings!

Their poster reads as follows:

"An incredibly versatile pro-end dry stage sample library - giving you total control."

I hate to have been the prophet about this while back when this forum thread first started...

Cheers to all with much love!

Special Edition Complete (Vols.1-4), SYNCHRON-ized SE Bundle (Vols.1-4)
Single Instruments, Vienna Ensemble Pro, VI Pro 2, MIR Pro, MIRx Bundle
Cubase Pro, Logic Pro X, Pro Tools, Notion
macOS 10.15.7, Mac mini 6-Core i7, 64GB RAM
Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2018 18:00
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
That‘s interesting. But why do they put it into Kontakt instead into their own HZ Strings-Player? Fail! The basic sound of these Studio Strings is good.

Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2018 12:07
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Funny, they sell a "dry stage sample library" and therefor very little ambiance, with 7 Microphone-Positions. I am not sure if that RAM-Load will be that efficient.

Kontakt? Meanwhile their HZString-Player is not that much different, to stay with Kontakt does not seem to me that innovative.

However Pro seem to be very cheap in respect to GB per €: 210 GB only 399€ = 526 Mb/€

(while the normal version with 13 GB makes 199€  = 65mb/€ )

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2018 13:52
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
The great thing on an own Player is that you can develop what ever you like. I do not get why they go with Kontakt. Maybe they know that the next Kontakt Version will be a game changer and NI convinced them to stay with Kontakt.

After listening to the first walkthrough I have to say ... what you get for 399 is really good. Beautiful emotional Legato, beautiful Mutes, Divisi, a few effects which could work great with our FX Strings 1 ... I will definitely buy the Studio Strings. I can imagine that this Library works great with VI and MIR/MIRACLE too.

Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2018 14:50
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
Beautiful emotional Legato, beautiful Mutes, Divisi, .

What disappoints me again and again, with the seemingly "large" Spitfire Articulation lists, is that they are in fact often so incomplete:

  • Only one or two Legatotypes and those only in a few sections available.
  • No fast Legato
  • No accentuated Legato
  • the same is with Sordini often only Long CS only some sections have also some short CS but no Legato CS at all, while in reality an instrument with sordino is able to play everything what it would play without
  • Divisi with just 6 different basic articulations
  • not that prepared for higher or even brilliant tempo:
    • no fast legato type
    • I can not see if and how much any shortpatch include round robin or not

At least coming from VSL everything seem to more or less just 'adumbrate' but never made consequently complete and is therefor in my eyes scarcly fully usable in the same way. And there is little hope that they will ever ad any further Volume to complete what is missing.

And of course still as clumsy to use as we know it from Kontakt-Libraries

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2018 15:11
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
Well ... you can‘t have it all ;D .. that‘s why I wrote VI and the Studio Strings will be a good combination.
And you have to see the price. All in all and especially divisi combinations plus VI Strings offer a lot of options.

Woodwinds and Brass are next. I wish that one day the Vienna guys will communicate their upcoming releases the same straight way. This is very helpful for a good planning of additional Hardware and does hurt no one.

Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2018 15:26
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
Well ... you can‘t have it all ;D .. that‘s why I wrote VI and the Studio Strings will be a good combination.

OK I see.

Yes, perhaps nice to get some cheap additional colors available. (I am a more and moret cautious with that kind of selling point which blows up my SSD-Need so fast.) however it is at least imaginable that way.

as I said good GB/€ ration (for the Pro edition) meanwhile I still wonder if it would realy be that reasonmable to have 7 Microphone-Positions for a "dry" Studio Library,

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sat, Sep 01 2018 04:01
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

"Hans Zimmer strings"  

That is a sickening concept.

Posted on Sat, Sep 01 2018 04:20
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 538
Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post
<p>"Hans Zimmer strings"</p>
<p>That is a sickening concept.</p>
<p>btw - I don't care anymore about any change in VSL's direction -this thread was brought up out of the murk of the internet and is basically irrelevant. I moved on long ago. Change in direction? Great! I couldn't care less. Go 180! I love it.</p>


What???
HZ Strings are not the topic ...
And we do not care about the change either. That‘s why we are discussing about an alternative dry Library :D

What means „Go 180“???

Oh man, I go to Sports now ... :)

Shiba Inu & Doge ... to the 🌙🚀🚀

Posted on Sat, Sep 01 2018 05:30
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

LAJ sorry got a little carried away. I lapse into a comatose state accompanied by violent twitching and frothing at the mention of Hans Zimmer.

Posted on Sat, Sep 01 2018 11:25
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

"Hans Zimmer strings"  

That is a sickening concept.

Yes it is. And even more important a pretty clumsy sedate reacting result of this concept.

I think they (spitfire) have learned a least a bit from the often not very friendly reactions.

While it seem to me if they drew the wrong consequence if they droped the development of an original Sampleplayer, even if their HZS-Player does not seem to go notably beyond what we already knew from their Kontakt UI. However, they at least try to do something of quality even if the results cant be for us anything more than perhaps an additional resource of Patchvariants.

I still do have most expectations for VSL keeping track to continue of what they have bedung in the Quality and depth we are used to get only here.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Sun, Sep 02 2018 08:18
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 355

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

"Hans Zimmer strings"  

That is a sickening concept.

Yes it is. And even more important a pretty clumsy sedate reacting result of this concept.

I think they (spitfire) have learned a least a bit from the often not very friendly reactions.

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean you have to talk like you do, Fahl.

 

I don't think Zimmer Strings was a failure. Not financially, not artistically. It is a very special library with a special sound that obviously isn't meant for classical/normal orchestral work. Hence the special articulation set present in it as well. It is for hybrid/experimental stuff, something I doubt you understand or have any insight in.

I am sure there are good reasons why (several) of their newer releases don't use their own new sample player. They could have been in development even before Zimmer Strings was, or they need features that their own sample player doesn't have yet and would take long to incorporate (this could be GUI related also). Also their own engine is only a single instrument player (for now). They could quite possibly be waiting for it to be finished as multi instrument player before they make anything advanced use it.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Sun, Sep 02 2018 08:48
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

"Hans Zimmer strings"  

That is a sickening concept.

Yes it is. And even more important a pretty clumsy sedate reacting result of this concept.

I think they (spitfire) have learned a least a bit from the often not very friendly reactions.

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean you have to talk like you do, Fahl.

 

I don't think Zimmer Strings was a failure. Not financially, not artistically. It is a very special library with a special sound that obviously isn't meant for classical/normal orchestral work. Hence the special articulation set present in it as well. It is for hybrid/experimental stuff, something I doubt you understand or have any insight in.

I am sure there are good reasons why (several) of their newer releases don't use their own new sample player. They could have been in development even before Zimmer Strings was, or they need features that their own sample player doesn't have yet and would take long to incorporate (this could be GUI related also). Also their own engine is only a single instrument player (for now). They could quite possibly be waiting for it to be finished as multi instrument player before they make anything advanced use it.

Sorry, but I can not see any reason why you should tell anyone how he has to talk ort not. You have your opinion I have mine, try to be adult enough to just respect that.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Mon, Sep 03 2018 00:59
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

I wonder if Synchron will eventually go the same way as 3d TV and curved screens......

Posted on Mon, Sep 03 2018 01:09
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

I haven't checked out the Zimmer strings so I shouldn't have said that.  I will check them out.   I really appreciate Simon Raven's input, as he is a brilliant composer and performer. 

Posted on Mon, Sep 03 2018 07:44
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 355

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

I haven't checked out the Zimmer strings so I shouldn't have said that.  I will check them out.   I really appreciate Simon Raven's input, as he is a brilliant composer and performer. 

William, I read the comment as coming from a "Zimmer opposer". I used to not be a big fan of Zimmer and his music many years ago, but I have learnt that he is not just an "orchestral pop song writer" I can dismiss as inferior and non-worthy. That he is actually one of (if not the one) Hollywoods most visionary and innovative composers, always striving to come up with a new, suitable musical universe for his movies. That isn't what I think he did in the 90's, but sometimes (often) you are also just hired to do a job, and you don't get much saying in musical style. So seeing where he has taken his scores in the 00's and onwards I can't blame him.

He is not a typical classical composer like John Williams, which I think is an absolute genius, I guess that here, John Williams is scoffed at as well, so let's just for arguments sake choose say that Zimmer is no Dvorak, Beethoven or Sibelius either - or if those guys are too mainstream too, pick any obscure, genius composer you want. Zimmer is something different, but that doesn't make his talent less. It is just different. Sound and sound design is at least as important in his scores as the compositions. 

Anyway, a lot could be said on that topic. But just to clarify what Zimmer Strings is, and the visionary man behind it (together with the SF gang of course). That this was not meant as a classical string library. Why on earth would you do 60 cellos ensemble if that was the point!

I regard it as yet another great tool at my disposal, that I have hardly had any use for yet though. But hopefully some project will call for it as it has a special sound and organic feeling to it, especially the non-typical articulations. The standard staccatos/sustains are a bit hit and miss I think - some are useful, some are not.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Tue, Sep 04 2018 09:05
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: ZWaves Go to Quoted Post

Today, Spitfire Audio anounced their 'new' direction (which has been crafted for the last two years now...)

Spitfire Studio Strings!

Their poster reads as follows:

"An incredibly versatile pro-end dry stage sample library - giving you total control."

I just found that First Recording  a user made with the new SSS  (and VSL Winds to me the most convincing part in this piece). I do not want to imagine how sharp the "synth" complains must have been if he posted something like that here ;-)

I fear it remains what I think about Spitfire: ambitious, but currently scarcly touch any more than the half of what we would expect it to be.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Tue, Sep 04 2018 10:19
by Simon Ravn
Joined on Tue, Dec 10 2002, Copenhagen, Denmark, Posts 355

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: ZWaves Go to Quoted Post

Today, Spitfire Audio anounced their 'new' direction (which has been crafted for the last two years now...)

Spitfire Studio Strings!

Their poster reads as follows:

"An incredibly versatile pro-end dry stage sample library - giving you total control."

I just found that First Recording  a user made with the new SSS  (and VSL Winds to me the most convincing part in this piece). I do not want to imagine how sharp the "synth" complains must have been if he posted something like that here ;-)

You're reaching, Fail. There has been a ton of negative response (also people calling it synthy) regarding the new Spitfire strings library, including from me. People are not biased against VSL at VI Control's forum. VI is an independent forum, that's the difference. Here the userbase is largely biased towards VSL. And this is VSL's own forum, so why wouldn't they be? If Spitfire had a forum, I am sure it would be mainly SF fans that posted there.

- Simon Ravn
Posted on Tue, Sep 04 2018 10:58
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post

You're reaching, Fail.

???

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn Go to Quoted Post

There has been a ton of negative response (also people calling it synthy) regarding the new Spitfire strings library, including from me.

That make me think that we are even quite close or even consent with our judgement. So what is the problem?

As you can see in the quotation on which I reacted with my posting I answered the quite optimistic Post of ZWaves, while I already was a bit more sceptical, and just wanted to give with that link kind of an illustration, what would make me sceptical.

I have with no word mentioned about anyone "biased" or any other Forum you name here.

Are you sure you really answer to what I have posted here and not any kind of donquixotesque "Windmill" ?

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
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