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Matching venue sound - Synchron stage in MIR Pro
Last post Tue, Apr 23 2019 by Dietz, 11 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Nov 21 2017 20:09
by Richard Ford
Joined on Thu, Nov 25 2010, Posts 27

I've been having a bit of fun with this it's true - but there's one thing I really want to do and I'm struggling to find the best approach - it has the look of wasting many hours perhaps unnecessarily when I should be working on productions!

I have Synchron Percussion (and synchron strings on pre-order)

I also have MIR Pro and Synchron room pack.

I am of course aware that Synchron perc and strings are not specifically designed to be used with MIR Pro but what I've been trying to do is to match the sound of the Synchron percussion stereo mixes (which sound fantastic) by A/B-ing with a single mic position and using the multiple IR's to get the same sound, or somewhere close.

The idea is obviously so that when I bring in my other sections of dry(ish) sounds and apply the same kind of mic selection and positioning I should be able ultimately to create a homogenous sound that IS the Synchron sound stage and tweak from there.

However I am having difficulty with this and the stereo mix of the Synchron recordings are always better sounding than anything I've managed with my tweaks so far.

I have not had time to go exhaustively through every permutation but I did rather wonder if there were some presets or tips as to which microphone selections and positions can be used to achieve these sorts of results.

Posted on Mon, Jan 07 2019 18:21
by Mobius
Joined on Mon, Jun 06 2005, Brighton, U.K., Posts 127

Originally Posted by: Richard Ford Go to Quoted Post

I've been having a bit of fun with this it's true - but there's one thing I really want to do and I'm struggling to find the best approach - it has the look of wasting many hours perhaps unnecessarily when I should be working on productions!

I have Synchron Percussion (and synchron strings on pre-order)

I also have MIR Pro and Synchron room pack.

I am of course aware that Synchron perc and strings are not specifically designed to be used with MIR Pro but what I've been trying to do is to match the sound of the Synchron percussion stereo mixes (which sound fantastic) by A/B-ing with a single mic position and using the multiple IR's to get the same sound, or somewhere close.

The idea is obviously so that when I bring in my other sections of dry(ish) sounds and apply the same kind of mic selection and positioning I should be able ultimately to create a homogenous sound that IS the Synchron sound stage and tweak from there.

However I am having difficulty with this and the stereo mix of the Synchron recordings are always better sounding than anything I've managed with my tweaks so far.

I have not had time to go exhaustively through every permutation but I did rather wonder if there were some presets or tips as to which microphone selections and positions can be used to achieve these sorts of results.

 

I would like to know this too. Did you ever get an answer?

Posted on Sat, Feb 02 2019 17:19
by Richard Ford
Joined on Thu, Nov 25 2010, Posts 27

No I didn't.

I think some answers may lie in "Synchronized" libraries which weren't available when I posted this. What I mean is that comparisons could be made - it wouldn't provide the whole answer but there may be clues. Because I am assuming that those patches will have been faked using IR algorithms from Synchron stage in MIRPro rather than being authentic mic placements.

But I really haven't the time to experiment these days - I just go with the best sounds I can muster - and using things like Izotope Tonal Balance and Insight at various stages try to match whatever space I'm trying to achieve.

Posted on Mon, Apr 22 2019 21:49
by Pierre Alain
Joined on Mon, Mar 23 2015, Posts 7

Sry, I had to dig this thread out.

I am getting good results with the "Stereo - Virtual ORTF + Center" Microphone on the Side Wall Position and Dry/Wet Offset on - 50%.

But when I experimented with the Synchron Strings from Epic Orchestra I realized that the reverb from the room (that is of course within the samples because it was recorded in the room) is much louder in the deep frequenzies than on the rest of the spectrum. At least it appeared to me. So I set up a Room Equalizer (which equalizes only the wet signal of MIR PRO) to match what I heard in SyStrings. Of course on top there is some other equalizing in the mixer but in my oppinion the Room EQ makes a big difference to the sound and the feeling of the room and is a good way to shape it more realistically. Unfortunately I haven't seen the Room EQ for synchronized Instruments.

My Room Equalizer is set to
LowShelf (Gain 18, Freq 86, Q 0.71), Peak (Gain 17.82, Frqu 4.12k, Q 0.6), HighShelf (Gain -18, Freq 2.68, Q 0.22).

I am still testing yet but maybe this helps anyone to find the right roomsound.

Posted on Tue, Apr 23 2019 07:58
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7184

So you are really _boosting_ the low frequencies and the high mids by 18 db? That's interesting, because these are the areas where I always try to get rid of excessive energy, actually ... 

... but if it sounds right, it is right! :-)

All the best and thanks for sharing,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Apr 23 2019 12:32
by Pierre Alain
Joined on Mon, Mar 23 2015, Posts 7

Hello Dietz,

yes, I am boosting the low and high mid frequencies in the Room Equalizer, but I set the Dry/Wet Ratio to -50%. I also could leave the low and low mid frequencies as they are and bring the whole rest down but that way I have a bigger scale to work on. Also I have on top a Master Equalizer to bring the low freqs down a bit. The Room Equalizer setting is just good to make the room react in a special way to the sound. In reality different frequencies are reflected different.

Good example in my opinion would be when you put your head in a cardboard box (or an Isovox booth if you have one - it should be very narrow) and sing different high tones. The Sound will come back in different ways. And as far as I can tell MIR PRO doesn't do that by itself. But please correct me if I am wrong. :) 

Posted on Tue, Apr 23 2019 17:11
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7184

Originally Posted by: Pierre Alain Go to Quoted Post
[...] The Sound will come back in different ways. And as far as I can tell MIR PRO doesn't do that by itself. But please correct me if I am wrong. :) 

Oh, actually that's _exactly_ what MIR can do all by itself (in stark contrast to all conventional reverberation methods). :-) As a matter of fact, one of three main reasons to develop MIR at all was to find ways to make an instrument react with the virtual room differently in different directions. That's what the Instrument Profiles are about, basically.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Apr 23 2019 17:32
by Pierre Alain
Joined on Mon, Mar 23 2015, Posts 7

I am sorry, I was formulating that wrong. I meant that lower frequencies will react different than higher frequencies or let's say different wavelenghts in general. My bad. :)

Of course I know what MIR PRO is doing and that it is doing without a doubt a fantastic job. ^_^

Edit: But appearently you were right anyway. I was testing a bit more and I hear the different frequencies in different venues. I feel stupit now. :P

Posted on Tue, Apr 23 2019 18:44
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7184

"Learn something new every day!" :-) No reason to feel stupid, Pierre Alain. Thanks for taking the time to check things out yourself!

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Apr 23 2019 19:05
by Pierre Alain
Joined on Mon, Mar 23 2015, Posts 7

Thank you, Dietz. I am trying things myself all the time. Then such crazy ideas like freaking around with the room EQ come around. :D

speaking (writing) of learning: So when I change something in the room EQ I basically create a new room?

Posted on Tue, Apr 23 2019 22:21
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7184

Originally Posted by: Pierre Alain Go to Quoted Post
So when I change something in the room EQ I basically create a new room?

Strikly spoken: Yes. But - do you create a new flute, for example, just by adding a bit of treble and rolling off some LF-rumble? I wouldn't say so.

It's "best practice" to use MIR Pro's RoomEQ to make up for any messy resonances, or lack of hi-end, or whatever. You can do this in very detailed form by using different settings for different kind of sources (by means of RoomEQ Banks). As long as you don't go into extremes*), you should still hear _lots_ of signature sound of the plain, unaltered IRs captured from a Venue.

*) ... well ... +18dB might be "extreme" for many, though. ;-)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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