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Unwanted sound between notes and articulation changes
Last post Mon, Feb 25 2019 by bbelius, 10 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2019 16:58
by ChrisCraven
Joined on Wed, Mar 09 2016, Posts 42

Hi all,

I have a question about some unwanted sounds I hear between notes and articulation changes.  Particularly with the solo strings libraries, if I put in a rest or an articulation change usng key switches, I can some times hear a spike of the previous note.  Is this something that always happens and should be faded out with expression curves?

I've attached an audio file to help show what I mean.  Hopefully someone can help and if I am doing something wrong then I can put it right ;-)

Thanks,

Chris

File Attachment(s):
Cello.wav (2,643kb) downloaded 18 time(s).

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Posted on Sat, Feb 23 2019 18:52
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 580

Hi Chris,

What you hear are release samples.
There are two ways to fix this:
1. disable Release samples (checkbox in the player), or better
2. set the a fitting articulation and retrigger the note to simulate rebowing.

Best, Ben

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Feb 24 2019 17:08
by ChrisCraven
Joined on Wed, Mar 09 2016, Posts 42

Thanks for the info, Ben!  For the legato patches I'm using I see "Release Samples: Yes" in the patch window.  According to the VI user guide this tells me that Release Samples is available with this patch.  However, I cannot seem to switch it off.  On the Perform tab there is a "Release" tick-box which I think should turn off Release Samples.  So I've tried this and still I hear the unwanted sounds.

Your second option seems more interesting but I don't quite understand what you mean.  Can you explain a little more?

Thanks again,

Chris

Posted on Sun, Feb 24 2019 18:22
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 580

The solo strings performance articulations are not looped. For that reason the sound stops after the player's bow ends. As a real player is rebowing to continue the sound, you should switch to a matching articulation and retrigger the midi note. The name of the sample is not relevant, it just should sound right. For perf. egato try just retriggering the note, or a switch to sustained with auto attack.

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Feb 24 2019 19:30
by ChrisCraven
Joined on Wed, Mar 09 2016, Posts 42

So you are saying that I should switch articulations on each note?  For example, I use VC_perf-legato and VC_perf-marcato and switch between the two to represent the bow direction?  When I use only VC_perf-legato I hear the release samples.

Why are the release samples needed?  Under what conditions?

- Chris

Posted on Sun, Feb 24 2019 20:56
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 580

"I should switch articulations on each note?"
=> No. Only if you need rebowing and only if the current articulation does not sound like you want. You should retrigger the MIDI note (shorten the note and add an additional note with same pitch directly after the shortened note).

"Why are the release samples needed?"
=> Every real instrument produces a release sound after the note is stopped. This is simulated with this function.

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Feb 24 2019 21:14
by ChrisCraven
Joined on Wed, Mar 09 2016, Posts 42
Ok, I've been playing around with this and heard something really strange. When switching from a performance articulation to a grace note articulation and then back again, I would hear the last note before the grace note. Very odd. VI appeared to be playing notes in the wrong order.

Any ideas?

- Chris
Posted on Mon, Feb 25 2019 11:01
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 580

I tried to re-create your problem + possible fix. See Cubase-Project / MIDI file in attachment.
(VI is setup as follows: First Cell: Solo Cello perf. legato; Sec. Cell: Solo Cello perf portamento)

An advice: please add a short demo which shows the problem next time (mp3 + Midi + DAW project file). This helps to understand your problem and provide a solution :)

Best, Ben

File Attachment(s):
demo.zip (23kb) downloaded 3 time(s).

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Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Feb 25 2019 18:56
by ChrisCraven
Joined on Wed, Mar 09 2016, Posts 42

Thanks very much for the demo, Ben.  I don't use Cubase so can only open the midi file in my Sonar X1 DAW.

The midi is almost like mine though I am using one of the grace note patches.  I see what you are doing with the repeated midi notes to simulate rebowing.

I'll spend a bit more time on this towards the weekend - I have a day job! :-)

I should be able to provide a Sonar X1/Midi file if that would be useful?

Thanks again, Chris

Posted on Mon, Feb 25 2019 20:14
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 580

Hi Chris,

if the midi is almost the same, no need for your midi/project file (I have only Cubase). Just keep it in mind for the next time ;)
If you can't get the result you are looking for with the grace-note articulation, try an other one.
Often the performance trill articulation is the best option for short and fast transitions.
Don't let the articulation names dictate your programming. Instead use whatever sounds best to you.

Best, Ben

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
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