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Posted on Thu, May 23 2019 07:07
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Hi,

I'd like to ask here if someone else has encountered this issue with VEP.

I found this bug some version ago but I thought it was solved since for some instruments it doesn't happen.

For example if I use Infinite Brass I hear the note under the play cursor when I hit play. If I use 8DIO Toms Ensemble instead I don't hear the note under the play cursor.

I build a midi item, I put a note aligned to the first grid line and I hit play, no sound, after one cycle (with loop enabled) I hear it instead.

Maybe is library dependant because some library has a built-in delay and the communication between VEP and the host suffer of some kind of delay even on localhost.

I need your help to troubleshoot this problem because if I miss some notes I can't compose as I should. Maybe there's some configuration trick I should use.

Take in consideration that I already tried with "Anticipative FX..." enabled and disabled with no result.

Thank you.

Posted on Thu, May 23 2019 17:55
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Is there anyone that is using Reaper and VEP that could help me?

I'm feeling like abandoned here, I'm really the only one that is finding so many problems using VEP7 on Reaper?

Every time I go forward in my template I find something new. Here if I delay my note I hear the sound, it seems it is a matter of time but I tryed literally everything without results, so VSL could you help me to troubleshoot this?

I don't know where is the bug, I think this and other problems are all correlated. Is something about connection between Reaper and VEP7. I don't know if it is a Reaper bug or a VEP7 bug or an Alien bug or everything.

I obviously have no issues at all loading directly kontakt in Reaper.

Should I throw VEP away and continue using Reaper as before?

Is there anyone out there?

Thank you.

Posted on Thu, May 23 2019 18:18
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11476

Hello Daniele, 

Reaper is probably not the first choice for our typical user... 

Did you contact my colleagues at Reaper already? Did you already send such a song with more information about your configuration to ?

The more info you can provide for us to test, the quicker we will be able to test and fix.

Thanks, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, May 23 2019 18:45
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hello Daniele, 

Reaper is probably not the first choice for our typical user... 

Did you contact my colleagues at Reaper already? Did you already send such a song with more information about your configuration to ?

The more info you can provide for us to test, the quicker we will be able to test and fix.

Thanks, 
Paul

 

Hi paul,

I've an open ticket for the other bug and I already send an email with this bug. I found what cause the issue for the other bug but after a beta to test I didn't received other hints for this.

They told me that they are lacking kontakt libraries to test this out.

I know that maybe Reaper it is not your main businnes but I bought your product and I already "solved" one bug, I don't know how you programmed VEP and even if I'm an engineer I cannot go any further in bug hunting.

From you I expect a full compatibility of your product or an advice that inform users that it doesn't behave correctly with some daws.

I expected an enhancement of my workflow but actually I spending more time trying to solve various issues than composing music.

I'm at your disposal to give you all the information I need but only you could help me to find the cause and solve the issue. When they asked me to send my template and try the beta to see if that solved the issue I did it in the morning before going on a hard day's work.

I know maybe it couldn't be as easy as I think but at least keep me informed, I think as a client I'm like any Cubase or Logic users out there, the money are always the same.

I'm not raging Paul, just to be clear. I'm only trying to show you my point of view (actually I spent money for...nothing?). :)

Posted on Thu, May 23 2019 19:54
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11476

Hi Daniele, 

I understand your frustration, and I'm sorry if my comment came across wrong: You are posting in a public forum with very few Reaper users, I just wanted to explain the silence. 

I will do my best to push a solution to your troubles. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, May 23 2019 20:07
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi Daniele, 

I understand your frustration, and I'm sorry if my comment came across wrong: You are posting in a public forum with very few Reaper users, I just wanted to explain the silence. 

I will do my best to push a solution to your troubles. 

Best,
Paul

I understand Paul, I hope you could fix this, for me and the other Reaper users out there.

Anyway I did another try and I found out that the problem is about the Event Input plugin, if I route midi channels to VEP main plugin track there's no such problem, I think this and other bugs are all correlated to how Event Input behaves (both VST and VST3 version).

I could also use MIDI ports but I prefer Event Input one because:

1) With MIDI tracks I have only 16 channels per instance;

2) With MIDI tracks I don't see parameters to automate like with the Event Input plugin.

 

Hope this helps!

 

EDIT if I use the VST version of Event Input I hear the first note randomly but I never hear it after the first play loop. The cursor keep looping but I doesn't hear anything. If I use the VST3 I don't hear the first note on the first play but I can hear it in each subsequent loop.

Posted on Thu, May 23 2019 22:09
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48
Ok, maybe I found how to reproduce the behavior, version 7.0.834
 
If I put more than one main plugin (vst since VST3 is still too slow) and link some event inputs to them then I have random behaviors.
 
Sometimes I hear the sounds from all of the instruments and sometimes not, if I use only one instance with some Event Inputs it seems to work fine.
 
It is like some conflict between plugins...
Posted on Fri, May 24 2019 07:48
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11476

Hi Daniele, 

Thanks, that's good information. Why doesn't VST3 work in Reaper??

The Event Input plug-in is really only a workaround for hosts that didn't offer VST (which are very few), I doubt that the VST version is used by many users (which is why this bug has gone unnoticed, I assume. 

Please send me such a Reaper song to check:

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, May 24 2019 08:57
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi Daniele, 

Thanks, that's good information. Why doesn't VST3 work in Reaper??

The Event Input plug-in is really only a workaround for hosts that didn't offer VST (which are very few), I doubt that the VST version is used by many users (which is why this bug has gone unnoticed, I assume. 

Please send me such a Reaper song to check:

Best,
Paul

I have many VST3 plugin and they are all working in Reaper.

The main plugin (VST3 version, the VST one works instantly) is very slow on loading, it freezes Reaper for some seconds every time I load it in a track. Moreover every time I open the FX window Reaper freezes for sometime and then I could work on the plugin interface. This happens every time and this behavior was confirmed by another Reaper user on VI Control forum, so it is not only on my PC.

To replicate this it is enough to open a new project in Reaper, load a new instrument on a new track, select VEP7 main plugin VST3 and look what happens.

I'm not at home right now so I can't send you another template file but I already sent one at

I don't know if it is a matter of track number or what it is exactly because it behaves very random, sometimes I hear the notes and sometimes not.

Yesterday I tried to put offline all the tracks except for one with main plugin and one with an event input connected to it and the first note worked, if I put online the other tracks (other VEP main plugins connected to other instances) and try to play more tracks at the same time some of them works and some other not.

 

About the Event Plugin I'm building my template like this (look at what I already sent you via support ):

Inside VEP:

Instance1

  1. Track: kontakt instance (1 for instrument), Port - 1 Midi - All Output 1/2
  2. Track: kontakt instance (1 for instrument), Port - 2 Midi - All Output 3/4
  3. And so on....

Instance2

  1. Track: kontakt instance (1 for instrument), Port - 1 Midi - All Output 1/2
  2. Track: kontakt instance (1 for instrument), Port - 2 Midi - All Output 3/4
  3. And so on....

Inside REAPER:

Track with main plugin VST connected to instance1

  1. Track: Event Input VST3 on port 1, assigned to instance1 receive input 1/2 from main and send to master (or a semi master or a bus)
  2. Track: Event Input VST3 on port 2, assigned to instance1 receive input 3/4 from main and send to master (or a semi master or a bus)
  3. And so on....

Track with main plugin VST connected to instance2

  1. Track: Event Input VST3 on port 1, assigned to instance2 receive input 1/2 from main and send to master (or a semi master or a bus)
  2. Track: Event Input VST3 on port 2, assigned to instance2 receive input 3/4 from main and send to master (or a semi master or a bus)
  3. And so on....

By doing like this I could use 32 ports on VEP and 64 audio channels (due to 64 audio channels limit in Reaper) and I see the parameter list on every track (for automations) with their names (last update add this 7.0.834).

If I route MIDI channels to main plugin I should stay always on port 1 and I could use only 16 tracks per instance (due to the 16 channels MIDI limit). Moreover I can't see automation parameters to automate them in Reaper.

There some connection conflict or some latency problem with the Event Input plugin that can't communicate correctly with VEP in some circumstances or configurations.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I don't see other ways to do this, let me know if I am clear or you need more.

I'll send you the updated template this evening after work (it is the same of the old one I sent you but I replaced more instruments with event plugin and added some main plugin tracks, I'm replacing the old one). In the meantime try to work on what I sent you and what I said you. I think you could find the problem more easily now.

Thank you.

Posted on Fri, May 24 2019 10:37
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

I have another question in the meantime: if I would to roll back to a previous version of VEP should I only run the setup of the version I want to roll back to, am I right?

Posted on Fri, May 24 2019 12:07
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11476

Hi, 

Thanks for the report. 

To roll back, uninstall VE Pro 7, then install the version you'd like to install. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, May 24 2019 12:54
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi, 

Thanks for the report. 

To roll back, uninstall VE Pro 7, then install the version you'd like to install. 

Best,
Paul

 

Thank you, I'll send you the template in a few hours.

With VEP6 can I load the template I built with VEP7?

Posted on Fri, May 24 2019 12:55
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11476

Originally Posted by: DANIELE-ES Go to Quoted Post

With VEP6 can I load the template I built with VEP7?

That's not possible. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, May 24 2019 13:19
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: DANIELE-ES Go to Quoted Post

With VEP6 can I load the template I built with VEP7?

That's not possible. 

Best,
Paul

 

Well, then I think I have to wait, it is a huge amount of work.

Maybe I could try if I have the same bugs with older version.

Posted on Fri, May 24 2019 16:25
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

VEP template and Reaper template sent via support mail, Case 298575, the same I already opened for the other issues still not solved.

Thank you.

Posted on Tue, Jun 04 2019 11:39
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11476

Hi, 

Quick update for everyone following the discussion. We are in contact with our colleagues at Reaper and hope that we can help improving the VST3 performance on their side. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Jun 05 2019 02:59
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 120

DANIELE-ES,

Reaper user here.  VEPro7 is working great for me so far.  However, I had to do some head scratching to get it working.  It bugged out on me quite like you're describing until I stopped using the Event Input plugin.  Of course, I then asked myself "But how do I get it to port to more than 16 channels?

Here's the solution.

All I can say is, try the steps in the link above and avoid the Event Input plugin.  I don't know if this helps you to get it working, but I hope it will!  

All the best,

- Sam

Posted on Sat, Jun 08 2019 13:19
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Originally Posted by: samsonite789 Go to Quoted Post

DANIELE-ES,

Reaper user here.  VEPro7 is working great for me so far.  However, I had to do some head scratching to get it working.  It bugged out on me quite like you're describing until I stopped using the Event Input plugin.  Of course, I then asked myself "But how do I get it to port to more than 16 channels?

Here's the solution.

All I can say is, try the steps in the link above and avoid the Event Input plugin.  I don't know if this helps you to get it working, but I hope it will!  

All the best,

- Sam

 

Hi Sam, thank you for sharing, I'm answering on the other thread you linked me.

Anyway there was a problem because Reaper devs fixed it in the new beta release. I'm waiting for this to be in the final stage.

Posted on Wed, Jun 12 2019 06:59
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi, 

Quick update for everyone following the discussion. We are in contact with our colleagues at Reaper and hope that we can help improving the VST3 performance on their side. 

Best,
Paul

 

Another update, the problem with VST3i main plugin seems solved in the latest beta releases of Reaper. The fix anyway will not be in the next official release because some things related to it still need to be tested.

So we should see the fix in a release after the next one.

Posted on Sun, Jun 23 2019 22:08
by DANIELE-ES
Joined on Sun, Mar 31 2019, Posts 48

Ok, I tried the new version of Reaper (v 5.979) and now VST3 seems to works correctly, no more hangs or slowness.

Unfortunately I must say that I don't see a way to use VEP7 efficiently in my template/workflow because:

1 - Event Plugin is buggy and I can't use it, some note plays and some other not;

2 - VST3 midi routing is buggy too on Reaper, if I try to route midi and audio on the same track by activating "Feedback Routing". I cannot use two tracks for every instrument in my template (one for MIDI and one for Audio), it would be too messy, a huge workflow worsening.

So...well...this software is great but I really have no more arrows for my bow.

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