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VI series
Last post Thu, Jan 16 2020 by Paul, 49 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Dec 13 2019 19:57
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

Hi Paul,

Okay this is getting really really interesting, i played a song to some friends and they are so impressed, not sure how man of them are going to jump into the world of VSL, i can't have enough of the sound of Trombone, and the piccolo throught MIR

I really need to get new reference speakers as i think they are going to matter how to put all instruments together and how they are going to sound before i compile the sound and send it to let's say Dolby Atmos system.

When i played the same thing in my 5.1 surround, it sounded much better.

any advice on reference speakers? does it matter to buy expensive ones? i have basic ones 16 years old, KRK 6

I also use Sennheiser HD 700 Headphone but i learned about sound reflections that i can't get using headphones (not sure this is still true)

I'm going to take a closer look at Synchron as you suggested, I'm not sure what it is yet, but i have a feeling that i'm going to miss MIR Venues if i go with Synchron, MIR venues are outstanding, however .. i still think why Hans Zimmer (whom i'm a fan of) jumped on Synchron??

-John

Posted on Sat, Dec 14 2019 10:14
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12232

Hi John, 

Great to hear that you are enjoying our instruments!

We love ADAM speakers here at VSL and Synchron Stage Vienna, and they have quite a range of options!

They also have incredible headphones. 

Synchron products are great. The ease of use is one of the major features, but we have also optimized our samples quite a bit for the SYNCHRON-ized version, and of course the many available microphones in the SYNCHRON products offer many options ... and a whole new sound.

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Dec 14 2019 14:31
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 519

Originally Posted by: jshamon Go to Quoted Post

.. i still think why Hans Zimmer (whom i'm a fan of) jumped on Synchron??

Did he?? Yesterday I saw a photo with Hans, Paul Thomson and the Spitfire crew ... The picture was made for a HZ-Strings-Update ... I think Hans is jumping on many trains ... and Stages ;)

Posted on Sat, Dec 14 2019 19:36
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

Originally Posted by: PaoloT Go to Quoted Post

MIR makes me feel guilty. After decades trying to use layers of reverb and accurate balancing in the mixer channels to simulate a space, now it is just a matter of moving some icons around and adjusting a few sliders. It makes things look too easy for a professional! I question if this is ethically sustainable!

Paolo

 

+1

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Sat, Dec 14 2019 21:40
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

Originally Posted by: jshamon Go to Quoted Post

but i have a feeling that i'm going to miss MIR Venues if i go with Synchron, MIR venues are outstanding, however 

 

Just to clarify.  With Synchron instruments you can still always run them through MirPro to get the other venues.  Just use the close mics and/or turn off both convolution and algorithmic reverb in Synchron...then process through MirPro as you have with VI libraries.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Tue, Dec 17 2019 02:39
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5527

Is that true?  

The basic sound is Synchron, and using Synchron in MIR is not the same as turning off release samples and then switching to a different venue (as with the Viennakonzerthaus Organ) . 

Or is that incorrect?  I thought maybe a VSL person should answer this, as it is news to me that Synchron instruments are the same as VI if you adjust their settings...  

Posted on Tue, Dec 17 2019 21:52
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

 

Dewdman42 (( Just to clarify.  With Synchron instruments you can still always run them through MirPro to get the other venues.  Just use the close mics and/or turn off both convolution and algorithmic reverb in Synchron...then process through MirPro as you have with VI libraries. ))

That is interesting, 

so Dewdman, are you saying you can dry out Sychron sounds and start treating them like the VI series sounds, then you can use MIR like before?

Paul what say you?

On the same topic, is the SYNCHRON-ized series are the same exsiting sounds (from VI series) but re-edited to work with Synchron stage and Synchron player? or are they new recoreded sounds? 

-John

Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 06:07
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 519

Originally Posted by: jshamon Go to Quoted Post

 ... you can dry out Sychron sounds ...

Hi, you can switch MIR X in the SY Player OFF and the sound is dry and centered.

(Edit: Of course we are speaking about SynchronIZED in this regard)

 

Edit 2:

When it comes to the Synchron ( - Multi Mic Series ) ...
What Dewdman writes is, that you could use (only) the Close Mics of the Synchron ( - Multi Mic Series ) and use those Close Recordings in MIR. Why not?
Of course this does not work with Room mics or surround mics etc. since these recorded the instruments positioned.

Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 19:27
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

LAJ

Can i reiterate what you said, 

We have Synchron Str 1, Sychron FX Str1, Synchron Percussion 1, Synchron Power Drums, Synchron Piano budle, all of these won't apply to what you said,

the rest like Synchron-ized versions apply to what you said

is that correct?

and again the difference between the 2 set of Synchron is the Sychron-ized versions are the same VI version but edite and mapped to work with Synchron player, versus the other ones are newly recorded, correct?

-John

Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 19:40
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

Is that true?  

The basic sound is Synchron, and using Synchron in MIR is not the same as turning off release samples and then switching to a different venue (as with the Viennakonzerthaus Organ) . 

Or is that incorrect?  I thought maybe a VSL person should answer this, as it is news to me that Synchron instruments are the same as VI if you adjust their settings...  

I'm not saying they are exactly the same.  VSL has changed some of the samples in the Synchronized versions.  What I am saying is that you can run Synchron based instruments through MirPro if you want to use other venues besides Synchron.  The room ambience is not burned into the close mic samples.  At least that is the case with the Synchronized libraries that I have.  Just turn off convolution and algorithmic reverb in the synchron player, then you will have very dry samples playing...  I think there are some close mic presets in there usually.  Then run it through MirPro and use other Venues.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 19:45
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post

Edit 2:

When it comes to the Synchron ( - Multi Mic Series ) ...
What Dewdman writes is, that you could use (only) the Close Mics of the Synchron ( - Multi Mic Series ) and use those Close Recordings in MIR. Why not?
Of course this does not work with Room mics or surround mics etc. since these recorded the instruments positioned.

I don't have any of the full synchron multi-mic series so i can't say for sure, but yes I think if you use the close mics in a multi-mic product, then you should be able to run it through MirPro instead of using Synchron convolution and instead of using the distance mics.  Why not, exactly.  I have used EWHO close mics in exactly the same way into MirPro.

I only have synchronized libs myself and those you just turn off convolution and algorithmic reverb in order to run into MirPro for other venues.  They seem to have some close mic presets, which aren't actual different mic positions, they are just presets with the reverbs turned off.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 19:50
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

Originally Posted by: jshamon Go to Quoted Post

LAJ

Can i reiterate what you said, 

We have Synchron Str 1, Sychron FX Str1, Synchron Percussion 1, Synchron Power Drums, Synchron Piano budle, all of these won't apply to what you said,

the rest like Synchron-ized versions apply to what you said

is that correct?

and again the difference between the 2 set of Synchron is the Sychron-ized versions are the same VI version but edite and mapped to work with Synchron player, versus the other ones are newly recorded, correct?

-John

My understanding, until we hear otherwise from VSL, is that Synchronized are basically the same dry samples used with ViPro, but sometimes they may have introduced some new samples for various reasons or cleaned up the samples in some way, but still, same concept...dry samples...and then using convolution and algorithmic reverb derived from MirX to provide the Synchron room.  Aside from slight differences, its basicaslly the same as using VI version with MirX synchron room.

The Full multi-mic synchron series have multiple mic positions recorded, some of which are the close mics, which are essentially the same objective as the VI dry samples.  With the full synchron series you can use the other distance mic positions, and I guess not have ot use MirX at all.  I don't know whether MirX convolution is included as an option in the synchron multi-mic products or not.  But in any case you could use the close mic presets to eliminate all the distance mics and run it into MirPro in order to get all the other venues as you wish.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 20:32
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

Hi Dewdman42,

Thanks for your explination, i'm still not sure what is muli mics and close mics are, i don't have any synchron products, but definitly i'm buying some.

How do we do positioning and distances in Synchron series as we do using MirPro?

Like in MirPro i have one mic- right? and all these objects that each represents a channel with an instrument(s) that is in each venue.

Where are the other mics in synchron?

-John

Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 20:47
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

so sample libraries are made with mics in front of instruments.  If you put the mics close to the instruments, like as in inches away, then they will be very dry sounding very little to no room ambience in the sample.  As you move the mic further away the sound that is recorded will be different from a distance, and also, some of the room ambience will be recorded into the samples.  If you go REALLY far away, you will especially hear a lot of the room ambience.

VI libraries were recorded very close, and I would guess they were probably also processed to be as dry as possible without any room ambience.  In order to make it sound like its on a stage in a room, you have to apply reverb and/or using something like MirPro to add the room ambience and stage positioning.

If you use a mic that is further away, like at the front of the stage, then the mic will pick up various early reflections and other sonic clues that will reflect some of the room ambience as well as will pick up stereo field and stage positioning.  You can't hear that from the close mics, but from the front of the stage you can hear whether the sound was left or right on the stage, front or back, etc..and some of the reflections off the back wall, etc..room ambience.  

If you are using close mic'd samples..then you have to add all of that info artificially using reverb and/or MirPro.

If you record from way back in the room, then you pick up even more room ambience of the entire venue.  Again, the close mics don't really pick that up significantly.  So if you use close mic samples, you have to add that artificially using reverbs and/or MirPro.

VI libraries basically required MirPro or MirX to truely sound like you are in a room.  MirPro has been a perfect companion to VI libraries.

Many libraries provide multiple mic position samples.  So you buy the library and you get the samples that were recorded at close distance as well as mics further away., including very far away.  My EastWest Hollywood Orch, for example, includes close, mid, main and surround, and there is a mixer I can use to include in the sound any combination of those mic positions in the sound I hear.  You can use just one mic, or all of them, mixed any way you want.  In this way it picks up the room sound, the stage positioning, the timbre of the instruments, etc..and no artifically reverb is really needed.  But if I wanted it to sound like a different venue, then I can't really use all those mics because they sound like the room.  Except for the close mics.  So I can use only the close mics and then use artificial treatment such as reverb or mirPro to add the stage positioning and room sound...all the stuff that normally would be present in those further away mics.

With Synchornized products, they basically took the close dry mic samples, similar as VI series, and packaged them into the Synchron player, mainly to use a newer player that some feel is easier to use.

With the full synchron products, I guess they include some other mic positions which you can combine together like I do with EWHO without using any artificial reverb, you can hear it as it should hear in that venue..including all the stage positioning and room ambience.  If you use those fruther away mics, then the room sound is baked into it.  But you don't have to mess around with MirPro either.  However, its only one venue.  If you want to hear the product through other venus with different room sound, then just use the close mics....and run it through MirPro to use whatever venue you want to get a different room sound.

I don't have any of the full synchron products, so my apologies if I have some details wrong about the exact specifics.  

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 20:57
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 519

Originally Posted by: jshamon Go to Quoted Post

1. ... i'm still not sure what is muli mics and close mics are, i don't have any synchron products ...

2. ... MirPro i have one mic- right?

1. Jshamon, the best way to understand the differences is to try it out. Why don't you load the FREE Big Bang Orchestra? It is a Synchron Product too and you will see the differences between Roomsound VS Close Sounds by opening and closing the different channels.

2. Vienna MIR Pro has a second Microphone as an Option which makes the sound a little thicker. maybe you can get a demoversion from the Viennese.

Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 21:15
by jshamon
Joined on Mon, Jan 22 2018, Posts 40

Thanks A LOT Dewdman

Now i understand what is going on (it is funny that i'm studying reverb and room reflections while i'm asking what are the use of these muliple mics) :-)

So by using muliple mics and panning, i can create the same effects with Synchron as in MirPro.

So in MirPro, you can adjust the distance of the object AND then still you can adjust the wet/dry ratio, from my understanding now, with Synchron, you can adjust panning and distance,  and close mics and far mics for the wet/dry ratio (if Synchron lets you do that)

 

LAJ, i downloaded it but have not worked on it yet, somethign didn't work right and i did not have time for it, i will work on it for sure.

 

-John

Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 21:16
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

Hmm, well I'm poking around in Big Bang and I can't figure out how to get close mics isolated..there is always some room ambience.  Not as straightforward as I thought, so I am going to revise what I said before...  With Synchronzied libs its easy enough to turn off convolution or algo reverb and get a dry sound to feed MirPro.  It does not appear to be nearly as straightward with Big Bang, which is a full synchron library...  Until I hear otherwise I am going to say that it has the room baked in...which is generally not suitable to use with MirPro.

Maybe someone knows how to get the close mics isolated though..I clearly don't know what I'm doing with it.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 21:21
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

jshamon,

Synchron products are designed in a way that you don't need MirPro.  The room ambience is included.  MirPro can easily be used with Synchronized products if you want it to sound like a different room other then the Synchron venue.  Its not clear to me right now whether this can be done with the full synchron libraries.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 21:59
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 519


yeah ok, you hear it in BBO because you have groups playing. Then ... if you load a Synchron Drum like the Giant Taiko which you maybe (hopefully) received with VE Pro 7 and you Play only the Close Channel in MIR, you will succeed. 

I named the BBO because it is free. The drums are of course better examples whe it comes to closesound experiments.

Posted on Wed, Dec 18 2019 22:02
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

good to know.  Unfortunately I missed the early adopter taiko drums so I don't have them.  The only other non-synchronized lib I have for synchon is smart orchestra and somehow I have a feeling its not isolate there either.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
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