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Posted on Tue, May 26 2020 20:38
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 178

Dietz,

I'm importing both a live-recorded Cello and a non-VSL sample library (choir) into MIR Pro.  The Cello was close-mic'ed already, but the panning was off.  I turned on the choir library's spot mic (dry enough) but that one's panning was all wonky as well.

As per your instructions on a different thread from some time ago, I used Waves' S1 Imager plugin to get the panning correct in both cases.  However, a few questions rose up:

1) Once I've got the symmetry fixed in the S1 Imager, should I leave the Width control at 1.00 or change narrow/widen it at all?  How will that effect how MIR Pro handles its own width control?

2) When assigning the General Purpose mics to these signal sources in MIR Pro, should I try to match it as much as possible to the microphone that the original source material used?  Why or why not?

Thanks in advance!

- Sam

Posted on Wed, May 27 2020 00:16
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7423

Hi Sam,

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam Go to Quoted Post

1) Once I've got the symmetry fixed in the S1 Imager, should I leave the Width control at 1.00 or change narrow/widen it at all?  How will that effect how MIR Pro handles its own width control?

Concept-wise MIR will take care all position- and panorama-related aspects. But please keep in mind that - unlike in case of Vienna Instruments - MIR has no way to "know" about the intrinsic stereo width of a "3rd-party source signal" like your recording.

This is important to make sure that MIR hanldes the stereo width correctly in relation to the source's distance to the Main Microphone.You will have to make an educated guess yourself when adjusting the MIR Icon's stereo width on a stage. - This won't cause real problems for the close-miked solo cello talked about (one or two meters will do, most of the time), but it's certainly something to keep in mind for larger ensembles.

Quote:

2) When assigning the General Purpose mics to these signal sources in MIR Pro, should I try to match it as much as possible to the microphone that the original source material used?  Why or why not?

Errrr .... I'm not sure that I understand the question correctly. 8-) Judging from your wording it seems that you mis-take the sound emanation patterns shown in the General Purpose Profiles as microphone characteristics. That's not the case - actually it's exactly the other way 'round: These patterns try to give you a visual idea how the sound dispersion of the source signal will take place in relation to the Icon's main axis (i.e. the volume handle, a.k.a. "the player's nose" ;-) ...). They tell nothing about mic capsules.

The default cardioid pattern might be a good choice for many sources (lots of sound to the front, less to the sides, the top and the bottom, almost nothing towards the back). Still it's a good idea to give other General Purpose Profiles a try for less (or even no) directivity of the source signal's sound, or maybe more directivity when you want to high-ligtht certain aspects of the Venue, e.g. distinctive reflections from a side-wall, to increase the perceived depth of the space.

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/creating-new-project#instrument-profiles

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/think-mir#instrument-directivity-profiles

.... if I misunderstood your question then please don't hesitate to let me know. 

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, May 27 2020 02:08
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 178

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

This is important to make sure that MIR hanldes the stereo width correctly in relation to the source's distance to the Main Microphone.You will have to make an educated guess yourself when adjusting the MIR Icon's stereo width on a stage. - This won't cause real problems for the close-miked solo cello talked about (one or two meters will do, most of the time), but it's certainly something to keep in mind for larger ensembles.

Very good to know!  I'll play around with adjusting the S1 Imager's width with the larger, choir ensemble and see how MIR interprets the different widths.  Hopefully it will be as simple as "if it's an ensemble, make it wider in S1", but are things ever that simple? :)

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Errrr .... I'm not sure that I understand the question correctly. 8-) Judging from your wording it seems that you mis-take the sound emanation patterns shown in the General Purpose Profiles as microphone characteristics. That's not the case - actually it's exactly the other way 'round: These patterns try to give you a visual idea how the sound dispersion of the source signal will take place in relation to the Icon's main axis (i.e. the volume handle, a.k.a. "the player's nose" ;-) ...). They tell nothing about mic capsules.

The default cardioid pattern might be a good choice for many sources (lots of sound to the front, less to the sides, the top and the bottom, almost nothing towards the back). Still it's a good idea to give other General Purpose Profiles a try for less (or even no) directivity of the source signal's sound, or maybe more directivity when you want to high-ligtht certain aspects of the Venue, e.g. distinctive reflections from a side-wall, to increase the perceived depth of the space.

You're correct, I misinterpreted what the General Purpose profile's names are alluding to.  I thought, because of their names, they were meant to be some kind of microphone simulation.  Now that I think about it, that doesn't make much sense, as you don't need to simulate a sample set that is...well, recorded with a microphone :)  It makes much more sense that they refer to the simulated directivity of the source signal.  I'll try slapping more directive profiles on the sopranos and wider profiles on the basses (given the directivity of treble and bass frequencies) and see what that does!  

Thanks, as always, for the clarification and help!  I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future; this program is a godsend, but it's also teaching me more about recording and acoustics than I ever thought I'd delve into...

- Sam

Posted on Wed, May 27 2020 12:08
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7423

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam Go to Quoted Post
[...] I'll play around with adjusting the S1 Imager's width with the larger, choir ensemble and see how MIR interprets the different widths.  Hopefully it will be as simple as "if it's an ensemble, make it wider in S1", but are things ever that simple? :) [...]

Actually there's not much to be done in Waves' "S1" (or Vienna Suite Pro's "Stereo Imager") apart from "re-centering" a stereo recording with burnt-in panning information. It's just about proper L/R-balance - otherwise the panning achieved by MIR Pro will not correspond with its visual representation. 

Nothing wrong with trying to increase the intitial width, but chances are that you run into phasing issues or lose important signal parts from the phantom center of the signal. I suggest to keep an eye on a goniometer (or any other corellation measuring device) before routing the signal into MIR Pro, therefore.

All the best,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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