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MIR Pro Update/MIRx Synchron Stage - Any Info?
Last post Mon, Jan 04 2021 by Dietz, 40 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Dec 15 2020 21:03
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7582

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

Awesome! Thanks, Dietz and team!

:-D ... You're welcome! 

(... in a first impetus I was tempted to answer "My pleasure!" - but than I realised that I should stay honest. I'm _very_ happy that this highly exhausting task is finally done, really. 8-) ...)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 13:10
by FrankC
Joined on Tue, Jun 03 2014, Posts 6

Thanks Vsl, thanks Dietz!

Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 21:38
by Del Gibbons
Joined on Sun, Dec 19 2004, Posts 51

YESSSS finally! I can integrate it all! :D

Long time VSL user since nearly the beginning :D

Derek Gibbons MA BMus(Hons) CompTIA A+

Cubase Pro 10.5 x2 // Vienna MIR Pro // Synchron // Cinesamples // Roland Cloud // Komplete // Waves

www.delgibbons.com
Posted on Sat, Dec 19 2020 19:58
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 273

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

Awesome! Thanks, Dietz and team!

:-D ... You're welcome! 

(... in a first impetus I was tempted to answer "My pleasure!" - but than I realised that I should stay honest. I'm _very_ happy that this highly exhausting task is finally done, really. 8-) ...)

I fully understand. I mean I quit my "journey" of creating my own MIRx settings, because I couldn't stand it anymore. I think I have good ears, but the ony day the setting was good, the next day is wasn't, the position wasn't right, the wetness wasn't right ... Oh, my, really happy now! A good christmas gift.

Very well done, Dietz! I only change the center capsule of the primary microphone to a more omni pattern (sounds more of a "decca tree" to me) and reduce the reverb length, it's a bit too long for my taste. That's the good thing about MIR Pro; in the Synchron Player you can't alter the length, just the wetness. And I already disliked this when using MIRx in VI (Pro).

And I have some other questions:

  • To what can the MIRx presets be compared? 1) The sound of the instruments as if you would hear them from a typical "decca-tree"-ish setup without further mixing enhancements, or 2) does the wetness and the reverb length of 1.42 already resemble an enhanced/mixed scenario?
  • Should "Air Absoption" be disabled when using your settings? Does it do any harm to your settings? I think you work with this feature disabled.
  • "Distance Scaling" and "Microphone Offset" both have to be enabled, right?
  • The SYNCHRON-ized instruments in the Synchron Player use a combination of the MIR IRs and a longer algo reverb. How can one achieve this with the MIRx settings? By reducing the overall dry/wet ratio as well as the reverb length? The SYNCHRON-ized instruments have 30% wetness in the "classic" preset and 20% wetness in the "close" preset. What does this mean? 30% in the Synchron Player means what in MIR Pro?
Posted on Sat, Dec 19 2020 20:10
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 273

And a technical question for MIR Pro:

  • Is there a way to deactivate all of the MIRx character EQs with one click? It's very tedious to revert all instruments back to the "pure" setting. Maybe I missed something. The other way round it's very easy, because you can select several instruments at once, select what should be changed (position, EQ etc.) and with one click the MIRx settings are apllied to all selected instruments.
Posted on Sat, Dec 19 2020 20:44
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7582

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

And a technical question for MIR Pro:

  • Is there a way to deactivate all of the MIRx character EQs with one click? It's very tedious to revert all instruments back to the "pure" setting. Maybe I missed something. The other way round it's very easy, because you can select several instruments at once, select what should be changed (position, EQ etc.) and with one click the MIRx settings are apllied to all selected instruments.

You're right, the "Auto Group" / "Alt-Click-Group" feature doesn't apply to Character selection. This makes sense in the bigger scheme of things (Characters aren't the same for all instruments), but I understand the need for a global reset. Will put it on the list of feature wishes ...

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Dec 19 2020 21:10
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7582

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post
[...]

And I have some other questions:

  • To what can the MIRx presets be compared? 1) The sound of the instruments as if you would hear them from a typical "decca-tree"-ish setup without further mixing enhancements, or 2) does the wetness and the reverb length of 1.42 already resemble an enhanced/mixed scenario? [...]

My reference while creating the MIRx for SSV-wide (a.k.a. "Synchronized") was the sound I get from Synchron Player with the mixer preset "02-03 Wide Surround to Stereo". For me this is "the" setup for Synchron Stage. ;-)

Quote:

  • Should "Air Absoption" be disabled when using your settings? Does it do any harm to your settings? I think you work with this feature disabled.

While it won't do any "harm" in the sense of the word, you should leave this option un-ticked when you want to hear what I heard.

Quote:

  • "Distance Scaling" and "Microphone Offset" both have to be enabled, right?

Yes, you're right. It wouldn't make much sense to set-up orchestral stuff in "pop mode". ;-)

Quote:

  • The SYNCHRON-ized instruments in the Synchron Player use a combination of the MIR IRs and a longer algo reverb. How can one achieve this with the MIRx settings? By reducing the overall dry/wet ratio as well as the reverb length?

MIRacle is the weapon of choice.  Reduce the Global Dry/Wet ratio a bit and add algorithmic reverb to taste.

Quote:

  • The SYNCHRON-ized instruments have 30% wetness in the "classic" preset and 20% wetness in the "close" preset. What does this mean? 30% in the Synchron Player means what in MIR Pro?

This is something I can't tell you without asking VSL software developers. I didn't implement my settings into SP.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Dec 20 2020 14:25
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 273

Thanks for answering, Dietz! 

Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 03:32
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1726

I first saw this in some marketing in my email, followed up and here I found the full statement:

"The 
new and FREE MIR Pro update patch of RoomPack 6 – Synchron Stage Vienna adds masterfully crafted MIRx presets to all instruments,"

It does not, not through itself. There is something missing here (even if it's my understanding is incorrect, eg., 'to all instruments' means something I am not grasping); I'm supposing this is predicated upon having a license for something MIRx bundle (which does not have any Synchron Stage), as the error is "check that your MIRx licenses are available on your key (venue data/Directory Manager)".

But as stated on the Products/Software/MIR Pro page, pasted above, it makes no sense to me.

I have licenses for RoomPacks 5 & 6. It doesn't make sense for me to acquire the rooms in the MIRx bundle. It would be nice to have Synchron in VI Pro rather than use up one of my 24 slots. Maybe this means only MIR Pro full, but some information is omitted from this assertion.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7, Cubase Pro 11.0.10
Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 09:57
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7582

You don't have to buy any MIRx Venues if you want to use MIR Pro - just download the update for MIR Pro from your "MyVSL" user-area, and you'll see the new presets in the MIRx-Mode panel. This is true for MIR Pro as well as MIR 24.

MIRx (opposed to the aforementioned "MIRx Mode") is an product by itself, it relies on different data and different licenses. 

... see this older thread for a comparison of the two: -> https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m224364-MIR-PRO-v-s--MIR-X#post224364

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 14:20
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1726

I'm using MIR Pro 24. I have never used MIRx, I took out one demo and there was some problem with the license on the key; I wasn't all that likely to buy that/those venues and buy MIR Pro so I just moved on. I was never very buzzed with the limitations of a fixed spot on stage I have no say in (except say for expected strings placement), or the other limitations.

So you're saying there is MIRx-Mode in MIR Pro; so I guess it *is* that my understanding of 'adds to all instruments' is not what is meant. I'm not seeing any use for that 'mode', having the RoomPack 6, Synchron. The upshot of this for me then is there is no Synchron Stage MIRx for VI Pro. I guess this free addition in the update is not relevant to me. Thanks for the prompt reply, appreciated.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7, Cubase Pro 11.0.10
Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 14:31
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1726

I would be pretty inclined to buy Synchron as a venue in MIR-x itself though.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7, Cubase Pro 11.0.10
Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 16:26
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7582

Originally Posted by: civilization 3 Go to Quoted Post
[...] I'm not seeing any use for that 'mode', having the RoomPack 6, Synchron. [...]

Hmmmmm ... I can't see any use for MIRx-Mode _without_ having the respective RoomPack, because it won't load the corresponding settings without the appropriate license (which you already have, judging from your message). 

... but don't feel obliged to use them! :-)

Have a great 2021 nonetheless,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 18:11
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1726

Well yeah, I just meant it seemed redundant at first glance, but as I read more in the thread I think it's just my understanding is poor. It appears you have 'character presets' for instruments in an update, so if they're unique vs the extant ones in MIR it isn't redundant.

I wasn't aware of MIRx _mode_ in MIR. But if it's there I'll just check it out. :)

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7, Cubase Pro 11.0.10
Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 18:30
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7582

Originally Posted by: civilization 3 Go to Quoted Post

I wasn't aware of MIRx _mode_ in MIR. But if it's there I'll just check it out. :)

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/mirx-mode

... this should get you started. ;-)

Happy New Year!

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 18:34
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1726

Yeah, time to RTFM isn't it 

I just looked at that, actually. I see. Yeah, your Pernegg Monastery preset for example is dramatically different than what I'm doing. 

HNY to you too! thanks again

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7, Cubase Pro 11.0.10
Posted on Sun, Jan 03 2021 21:34
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 273

Dietz, I have some more questions/remarks on/for the MIRx settings:

  • Some lower instruments (e.g. dimension horns, dimension cellos) sound a bit boomy. I understand that's because of the close miking at the Silent Stage. Was there already some EQ applied to the dry samples to overcome the proximity effect? Would a high-pass filter in the MIR Pro Room EQ be a good option or are there better options? I think you already made the best you can do with the Room EQ, but it's still boomy.*
  • For my taste the Appassionata strings are too wet, they are around 40, and more than Orchestral or Dimension Strings which are at approx. 30. Shouldn't they be drier? Maybe there is a mistake?
  • When activating MIRx, some instruments (e.g. trumpet, flute) are switched to solo position by default. No problem, but couldn't this be changed? Also some positions are not clearly named/assigned, e.g. there is Flute 1 and Flute 3 (1B). Where is Flute 2?
  • Some character EQs are "messed up". In general, the MIRx character EQs are at the bottom of the character EQ drop-down list. Now we have some at the top of the list (e.g. Dimension Violins). Again, not a problem, but maybe it's a bug.

 

---

* I read about the Abbey Road Reverb Trick where you high-pass at 600 and low-pass at 10000. Would this make sense in the Room EQ in general for all instruments, or is this trick only helpful with reverb tails? I think that the wet part in MIR Pro is ER + tail, isn't it? 

Posted on Sun, Jan 03 2021 23:42
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7582

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post
Some lower instruments (e.g. dimension horns, dimension cellos) sound a bit boomy. I understand that's because of the close miking at the Silent Stage. Was there already some EQ applied to the dry samples to overcome the proximity effect? Would a high-pass filter in the MIR Pro Room EQ be a good option or are there better options? I think you already made the best you can do with the Room EQ, but it's still boomy.* * I read about the Abbey Road Reverb Trick where you high-pass at 600 and low-pass at 10000. Would this make sense in the Room EQ in general for all instruments, or is this trick only helpful with reverb tails? I think that the wet part in MIR Pro is ER + tail, isn't it?
 

All of this depends a lot on the context of the composition, its arrangement and the programming, of course. The MIRx-specific "Characters" are meant to take care for the direct signals. If the room's output seems to be too boomy, then feel free to bring down the offending frequency ranges - after all that's why there's the RoomEQ, actually. ;-) 

I never trusted the legend of the "Abbey Road Trick", though. A room must sound terrible if I really have to cut its frequency range to that extremes, especially in an orchestral recording.

Oh, and there's no "ER and tail" separation in MIR Pro. What you hear are the complete, unvarnished impulse responses from each hall. :-)

Quote:
For my taste the Appassionata strings are too wet, they are around 40, and more than Orchestral or Dimension Strings which are at approx. 30. Shouldn't they be drier? Maybe there is a mistake?
 

If it sounds wrong for you - change it! :-) That's the beauty of dry sampling without baked-in room. It don't see a mistake there, though.

Quote:
When activating MIRx, some instruments (e.g. trumpet, flute) are switched to solo position by default. No problem, but couldn't this be changed?

Some character EQs are "messed up". In general, the MIRx character EQs are at the bottom of the character EQ drop-down list. Now we have some at the top of the list (e.g. Dimension Violins). Again, not a problem, but maybe it's a bug.

Yes, those are oversights which happened during the final software implementation of my settings. I asked VSL's software engineers to take care for these little blemishes just before the release, but obviously my request went unnoticed. I'll point them out again, but please don't expect a fix in the near future.

Quote:
Also some positions are not clearly named/assigned, e.g. there is Flute 1 and Flute 3 (1B). Where is Flute 2?

The Instrument Profile "Flute 2" is for Vienna Instrument's second flute. "Flute 3 (1B)" is a virtual double of Flute 1 (thus the label "1B"). I know, all those instruments can get a bit confusing. ;-)

All the best,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jan 04 2021 18:54
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 273

Thanks, Dietz! Much appreciated. You're so fast. :)

Concering Appassionata Strings: You're right, of course I can change the wetness. I only wondered, because the SYNCHRON-ized library is drier and many of the other MIRx venues have drier settings, too.

Posted on Mon, Jan 04 2021 19:09
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7582

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post
Concering Appassionata Strings: You're right, of course I can change the wetness. I only wondered, because the SYNCHRON-ized library is drier and many of the other MIRx venues have drier settings, too.

That's why I always point out that my settings have to be seen as starting points only. Hard to believe, but I'm just a human, too ;-D ... thus my taste (and the decisions based on it) are variable, not an absolute value.

Enjoy MIR Pro! :-)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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