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MIR Pro doesn't save position data
Last post Sat, Feb 27 2021 by Dietz, 18 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 12:58
by JBuck
Joined on Sun, Jun 09 2019, Posts 9

Hey,

It has come to my attention that when saving MIR Pro via the VE Pro File tab, it does not save any instrument data. It only seems to save the mic data. Is this normal behaviour or a bug?. And if it is normal, I am requesting that in the future there be a way to save the instrument data. This would allow the user to place the instruments on stage, configure the angle and wet dry ratios, save and then do a comparison with different settings. Or load this data intro different VE Pro projects.

Cheers.

JBuck

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 13:37
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7616

MIR Pro's so-called "Engine Project" data is indeed meant to save all Venue-relevant settings like Venue selection, microphone selection and setup, RoomEQ banks and so on - in other words: the "empty room".

All instrument-specific parameters are handled by the single instances of the MIR track plug-in, i.e. the "Icon" on a MIR Pro's stage. In VE Pro you can save and manage these settings by means of the so-called "Channel Sets". The respective commands are available from the context-sensitive right-click menu.

MIR Pro's plug-in version (VST/AU/AAX) simply relies on the preset management of the host. - Sidenote: The most important thing to remember in this context is the fact that the _very first_ instance of MIR Pro defines its output format (Stereo, 5.1, etc.).

... that said, we are _very_ aware of the fact that it needs a much more refined and powerful preset management to make use of a complex application like MIR Pro to its full extent. We work an update that will take care for these demands.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 15:16
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5618

I never had this happen.  All positions, EQ, Dry/Wet and any other settings for individual instruments as well as the overall hall are always saved in the VE Pro file so something must be seriously wrong with this setup.  

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 17:33
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

MIR Pro's so-called "Engine Project" data is indeed meant to save all Venue-relevant settings like Venue selection, microphone selection and setup, RoomEQ banks and so on - in other words: the "empty room".

When you roll out the update, please keep this functionality in.  It's extraordinarily helpful when working with many instances that need diff. instrument placements and parameters but require the same room/space across all the instances.  I can't imagine why this would be taken out, but I just wanted to drop my 2c in just in case...

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 18:44
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5618

A VE instance can be saved with every MIR setting, and all the instruments can be removed or replaced but the MIR hall settings will be the same.  

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 18:52
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

A VE instance can be saved with every MIR setting, and all the instruments can be removed or replaced but the MIR hall settings will be the same.  

I know.  However, it's helpful in certain cases to be able to save the MIR "room" settings independently.  In my case, I have a Strings Instance, Woodwinds Instance, etc. but I want them all to be in the same room with the same settings.  If I want to change any of the room settings and have them applied to all instances, all I have to do is save the new MIR Engine settings and load them in each of the instances.  If I saved it as a VE instance project, I'd have to reload each instance's instruments to their respective section (Strings, Winds, whatever) each time I wanted to change a parameter.

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 19:01
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5618

Yeah that makes sense.  I've just been using one big instance but it would be helpful for lots of them.

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 19:14
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

Yeah that makes sense.  I've just been using one big instance but it would be helpful for lots of them.

I would prefer that, honestly, but I need to have the option to render stems (either on a section by section or instrument by instrument basis).  There's a workaround in the DAW I use, but it's annoying to set up and hogs CPU waaay more than having multiple instances...

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 19:56
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Wow, I just realized that I'm making this way harder than it has to be.  Rather than having separate instances for all the different sections, I can just assign each section to a group in one instance.  Then, when I want to render stems of the sections (or even instruments), I just mute the other sections in VEP7, render in the DAW, rinse and repeat for the other sections.  

Thank you, William, for inadvertently triggering this epiphany.

Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 20:37
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7616

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam Go to Quoted Post

Wow, I just realized that I'm making this way harder than it has to be.  Rather than having separate instances for all the different sections, I can just assign each section to a group in one instance.  Then, when I want to render stems of the sections (or even instruments), I just mute the other sections in VEP7, render in the DAW, rinse and repeat for the other sections.  

Thank you, William, for inadvertently triggering this epiphany.

Many DAWs offer simultaneous channel bouncing. If you use several outputs from VEP and route your stems through them, you can actually drop the "rinse and repeat"-part, too. ;-)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Feb 08 2021 21:43
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam Go to Quoted Post

Wow, I just realized that I'm making this way harder than it has to be.  Rather than having separate instances for all the different sections, I can just assign each section to a group in one instance.  Then, when I want to render stems of the sections (or even instruments), I just mute the other sections in VEP7, render in the DAW, rinse and repeat for the other sections.  

Thank you, William, for inadvertently triggering this epiphany.

Many DAWs offer simultaneous channel bouncing. If you use several outputs from VEP and route your stems through them, you can actually drop the "rinse and repeat"-part, too. ;-)

Time to break out the manual!

Posted on Tue, Feb 09 2021 05:03
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5618
I didn't do anything inadvertently. I didn't think separate instances made any sense because in my setup using VE as a standalone it is unlimited in instruments, channels, ports, plugins, etc. except by the hardware. But I have an unusual system so it probably is not relevant
Posted on Tue, Feb 09 2021 15:07
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 243

All I meant is that this thread got me thinking about how to do things more efficiently.  I'm glad it it did!

Posted on Tue, Feb 09 2021 15:13
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5618

Right, I was actually thinking of some other setups I've heard of, rather than exactly what we were discussing. 

Posted on Fri, Feb 26 2021 02:15
by JBuck
Joined on Sun, Jun 09 2019, Posts 9

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

All instrument-specific parameters are handled by the single instances of the MIR track plug-in, i.e. the "Icon" on a MIR Pro's stage. In VE Pro you can save and manage these settings by means of the so-called "Channel Sets". The respective commands are available from the context-sensitive right-click menu.

So at this point it is not possible to convert my 80 instrument orchestra from my e.g. Konzerthaus preset to my  Sage Gateshead preset without closing Cubase, closing VE Pro and loading up my Sage Gateshead template in both programs or, as you say, go through and load the Channel Set or the individual MIRCHAN file for all 80 instruments?.

Thanks.

Posted on Fri, Feb 26 2021 10:34
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7616

The answer is not as simple as a "yes" or "no". :-)

As long as you really want to switch between Vienna Konzerthaus - Großer Saal (or Mozartsaal) and The Sage Gateshead - Hall One, there would be the option of using the MIRx Mode presets provided for these Venues. In that scenario, all players would "magically" find their proper places all by themselves.

If you just want to bring over your 80 players to another Venue (one that doesn't offer MIRx Mode presets), but without expecting them to find themselves a "ready to roll" setting, then changing Venue is as simple as selecting one from MIR Pro' Venue Selection. Depending on the shape and size of the Venue, you will have to re-adjust position(s), maybe Main and Secondary Microphone setup, and most of all: The RoomEQ settings. The good news is that MIR can manage the latter by itself: All Output-related parameters are saved and recalled as "MIR Engine Projects" from the File ...-dialog in MIR Pro's main window.

... and as long as you have all your players instantiated within VE Pro rather than your DAW, you can rely on VE Pro's so-called Channel Sets to manage Venue-specific player settings - individual ones or groups.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Feb 26 2021 23:33
by JBuck
Joined on Sun, Jun 09 2019, Posts 9

Right, so all we really need now is to be able to batch save/load Channel Sets and we are away. This would be ideal if it were done by VE Pro Instance. We would still need to be able to batch save/load MIRCHAN files in our DAW though, as I'm sure people are using MIR Pro in their DAW without VE Pro.

Thanks.

Posted on Sat, Feb 27 2021 00:25
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7616

Like I wrote above: A new preset creation- and management system will be introduced with the upcoming MIR 3D.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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