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Last post Fri, Jun 04 2021 by badibeat, 40 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Apr 08 2021 10:26
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 304

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post

I'm not even sure what if anything they could change in VIPro, if they had unlimited resources to do that, which they don't.  But what exactly?  Yea I'd like to see something like the Synchron mixer in VIPro maybe, but honestly....I don't really need it.  

I think it's already the best sample player, but there is always room for more. I have ideas and wishes, some are rather special, but would bring VI Pro even more forward.

  • More Retina options (e.g. 150%)
  • Real auto-divisi (I don't mind some latency)
  • Controller: Ability to reverse A/B patches (change the order)
  • Controller: Note duration (in addition to speed)
  • Controller: Improved interval map (which differentiates between first note and repetition)
  • Ability to define threshold, i.e. start and end point, of controllers (as in the Synchron Player)

And some more I don't remember at the moment. :P

Posted on Thu, Apr 08 2021 10:29
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 304

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post

I think its probably a mistake to label VI instruments as "Legacy".  Have VSL done so?  If they did, don't take the word to mean the wrong thing.  "Legacy" could mean "discontinued" to one person and "classic" to another.  

They are still actively sold.  They still represent today the best full orchestral package on the market today with the most instruments, articulations, quality of programming and software support.  I don't see that ending any time soon.  Even somewhat recently VSL updated VI player for HiDPI, so its not like they are cutting it off from support.

I don't know, but it's just a feeling I have that the VI libraries are not sold enough anymore, just because there isn't much talk and "love" in forums. And again: the reduced prices. Maybe I'm totally wrong.

Posted on Thu, Apr 08 2021 12:38
by Kai
Joined on Sun, Dec 29 2002, Graz, Austria, Posts 160

Yes, we need more Dimension Strings libraries. As far as I am concerned volume IV should complete the range of sul ponticello articulations as well as espressivo patches and legato harmonics, which are not available, yet in any of the string libraries. But, it is not so important in which order the different playing techniques are released as long as they continue to extend these libraries.

Pixelpoet, what do you mean by "real auto divisi"? Selecting how many players shall play a note and VI pro automatically distributing all voices among the different players, works already perfectly in VI pro with the Dimension libraries. Yet, I second all your other suggestions.

Posted on Thu, Apr 08 2021 14:45
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 304

Originally Posted by: Kai Go to Quoted Post

Pixelpoet, what do you mean by "real auto divisi"? Selecting how many players shall play a note and VI pro automatically distributing all voices among the different players, works already perfectly in VI pro with the Dimension libraries. Yet, I second all your other suggestions.

Yes, but it's not "auto". I want it to change automatically (= no key-switching) between tutti and divisi – like in Audiobro's LA Scoring Strings, or Divisimate. I know this introduces latency (and this has been the reason against it back then), but it would really be a great feature.

Example of what I mean with four Dimension Horns:

  • If I play one note, all horns play together.
  • If I play four notes, each horn plays one note.
  • If I play two or three notes, the notes are distributed across the horns. (Okay, this has to be either automatically assigned or user-definable.)
Posted on Thu, Apr 08 2021 19:09
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 710

My wish, or request if you will, would be that VSL would continue to expand their offering of articulations and playability in Dry sample format.  It is less important to me whether its in the VIPro player or Synchron player, though I do still prefer VIPro player for now...but what is more important to me is that they continue to create dry stage recordings of improved samples, articulations, captured player nuance, etc...but without the Synchron room baked in.  

The New Elite Strings is a good example.  It looks like a terrific addition to the Synchron series...and the demos sound gorgeous, If I were doing the multi-mic Synchron approach, I would have already bought it this morning when it was released.  But in addition to being captured on the Synchron sound stage...they claim to have also improved other aspects...the actual performance by elite players,  etc..  Improvements in the playability of the instrument and ability to quickly create captivating musical phrases.  Which sounds really really good in the demos.  These things they have learned to do better over the years, I would like to see also released in dry sample format.  That is still the approach I prefer to use, and myself am passing on all Synchron multi-mic products from VSL. It could be down the road I will decide I need to have all the Synchron stuff and will suddenly spend thousands to have it all, but for now, I'm committed to the dry stage + MirPro approach.  So I hope that VSL will continue to deliver dry-stage expansions on the VI or synchronized line.

Posted on Thu, Apr 08 2021 19:15
by Kai
Joined on Sun, Dec 29 2002, Graz, Austria, Posts 160

Oh, I see. Yes, this would be convenient (if there are no adverse latency or performance effects) . But it would be great if this could be implemented in a similar way to the current Auto-Voicing, so that it is flexible enough to still be able to control how many players are used, instead of a fully automatic algorithm that always keeps all players busy.

However, the present Auto Voicing in VI pro is already the big improvement, compared to e.g. the Synchron Player, since it allows the user to keep the entire section on a single track and conveniently realize arbitrary divisi. For me it is not such a big deal to send a single additional control event at the beginning of a divisi passage, that selects how many players are used per note, when otherwise everything is handled completely automatically.

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 01:49
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 710

(deleted, never mind dumb idea)

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 02:01
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5626

The dry sample format - you're right, that is what makes VI so valuable.  I've never used that auto divisi since I always wanted to control each player, but agree  it is a good feature - that is actually like a sample library that never made it, DVZ Strings.  It is interesting how Dimension Strings actually did what those guys were trying to do but went way beyond with the simultaneous performance/individual miking as well as hugely more samples about a decade later.      

Posted on Thu, May 13 2021 14:07
by Jos Wylin
Joined on Mon, Dec 03 2012, Belgium, Posts 645

... and finally the classic accordion/bayan. I asked it some years ago, but no response so far. The classic accordion has now a very decent completion of the orchestral and solo instruments all over the world. It has in fact little to do with the misconception of the instrument being a folk instrument to perform cheap folkloristic dances and tunes for musically illiterate musicians. Even here on this forum some high skilled and classically trained accordionists are active as composers...

Just a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4_62Y92w0

Jos

Posted on Wed, Jun 02 2021 14:46
by Thorsteinn
Joined on Thu, Sep 22 2016, Posts 10

I may be reading too much into this, but I am wondering if the new website made another step towards marginalising VI.  If you look at the Products dropdown, VI series is in the "More" category along with freebies and Vienna key (which is on its way out).  It looks like VSL is quietly phasing out VI in favour of Synchron.  I hope I am wrong.  I really like their traditional approach with silent stage libraries.

Posted on Wed, Jun 02 2021 16:16
by M.Ramillon
Joined on Sat, Dec 15 2012, Posts 12

I really hope this is just an impression!

Posted on Wed, Jun 02 2021 16:44
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1039

If someone was worrying about the VI Series, here is something to increase anxiety: in the website redesign, it is now under "More", just above the freebies! :P

(Sorry, it was already told by others, before I could see the message.)

Paolo

Posted on Wed, Jun 02 2021 21:20
by Gustar
Joined on Wed, Sep 05 2018, Posts 19

That is really a sad development. I spent a lot of money on the Cube and it seems we are approaching the end of the road, at least when it comes to additional VI libraries and exciting new features.

Truth be told, I wonder if this is a great business decision to let VI die slowly. How is VSL going to sell Mir Pro and all the addons in the future? Is it deprecated as well?
The VI series' flexibility is its unique selling point. If I am looking for an orchestral library with a fixed room tone, I suddenly have a large amount of other libraries to choose from and VSL is not the automatic winner anymore.

But maybe "the market" demands a product like Synchron. Maybe budgets are getting smaller, time has become more valuable and for people needing to score a 30 second commercial quickly, an instant sound result is more important than great flexibility.

Posted on Thu, Jun 03 2021 11:31
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 304

Originally Posted by: Gustar Go to Quoted Post

Truth be told, I wonder if this is a great business decision to let VI die slowly. How is VSL going to sell Mir Pro and all the addons in the future? Is it deprecated as well?

You can deactivate the impulses of the SYNCHRON-ized libraries, but to be honest, why should one use libraries in the Synchron Player with MIR Pro... Yes, it's flexible, but in some way it contradicts the Synchron series approach. 

That they put the VI series under "more" is sad, like old "legacy" stuff. Why not let both series side by side? They only need some marketing overhaul. I really want more silent stage recordings. Who knows...

Posted on Thu, Jun 03 2021 15:38
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1039

As a strong advocate of the VI series (still not replaced by the Synchron-ized Series, that is something different in sound and use, and is way less complete), I wonder why they didn't simply name the first menu "Pro Libraries", instead of "Synchron", and didn't add the VI Series there, as a last item. All considered, the name of each series is already in the item's name.

I propose to have a manifestation under the windows of VSL's managers, to ask them preserve the precious heritage and the honor of the VI Series!

Paolo

Posted on Thu, Jun 03 2021 15:43
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1039

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

You can deactivate the impulses of the SYNCHRON-ized libraries, but to be honest, why should one use libraries in the Synchron Player with MIR Pro... Yes, it's flexible, but in some way it contradicts the Synchron series approach. 

While not pure or elegant like starting from the raw sounds, this approach can make sense. You get a default type of ambience, but can replace it with a different ambience create with a plugin called MIR. The same can be done with libraries from other brands, where you deactivate the room mics, and send the Close and Mid mics to MIR.

In this way of thinking, Synchronized libraries become similar to multimic libraries, and instead of turning on the real room mics, you turn off the virtual ones.

Paolo

Posted on Thu, Jun 03 2021 17:28
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1032

Why would they be developing the next generation of MIR Pro if the VI libraries were going way?

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Thu, Jun 03 2021 21:18
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 710

Paul has said numerous times that VI series isn't going away, I wouldn't worry about it.  I do think it may not get many improvements to the VIPro player.  And I do think most of the libraries are not going to be further expanded, which is the more unfortunate part.  Its already quite a deep library.  I see no reason why they would want to stop selling them, but think they just needed to move the VI series off to a different page in order to highligh newer offerings like BBO and stuff that is selling like hot cakes right now, while truthfully they are probably not selling a lot of VI series libs these days....comparatively.  Just speculating...but the sales and marketing page is meant to highlight the stuff they think they can make the most money...not highly the stuff that they particularly want to keep around.  Don't panic everyone...

As to some other comments..I like some of the Synchronized libraries slightly better then VI series...only because they did in some cases improve some of the fine detail in the sample edits and transitions, etc.  The Synchronized or often not as deep in terms of every articulation you can think of, but they do have improvements.  I usually turn off IR and just use MIR also, so in effect the sound is very similar as using VIpro...but anyway, some are better then others in this regard..  I upgraded from Vi to Synchronized for mostly everything because the upgrade price has been reasonably priced most of the time and so I have both...if they do away with ViPro someday, I have at least some of the content covered by synchronized version...but they have a LONG ways to go before they will have the compete Cube moved into Synchronized format...I do not expect the ViPro player to go away, if ever...for numerous years....so don't panic...enjoy your wonderful library....

Posted on Fri, Jun 04 2021 10:20
by Gustar
Joined on Wed, Sep 05 2018, Posts 19

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post
I do not expect the ViPro player to go away, if ever...for numerous years....so don't panic...enjoy your wonderful library....


I don't think anybody is panicking, we all understand that the VI instruments are going to remain usable in their current state for a long time.

But many people had probably hoped for further refinements and updates to the VI product line, which is very likely not going to happen now. So anyone who planned to keep on expanding the investment in the VI line long term to stay up to date, is most likely in for a rough awakening.
In a few years, the VI instruments are going to fall behind other products from VSL and other companies. And there probably won't be a VI "Cube 2.0", so the most likely solution is going to be to re-purchase everything in Synchron(ized) format.

I will admit the "Synchronized" upgrade prices are not unreasonable, so I guess the best we can hope for is a complete synchronized VI product line one day, where it remains to be seen how they compare to the "pure" new Synchron products.
But in all honesty, I currently wouldn't recommend buying a VI product to any new customer, given the way the focus has shifted to Synchron and Big Bang Orchestra.

Posted on Fri, Jun 04 2021 14:09
by badibeat
Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2009, Posts 14

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post
My wish, or request if you will, would be that VSL would continue to expand their offering of articulations and playability in Dry sample format.  It is less important to me whether its in the VIPro player or Synchron player, though I do still prefer VIPro player for now...but what is more important to me is that they continue to create dry stage recordings of improved samples, articulations, captured player nuance, etc...but without the Synchron room baked in.  

I totally agree with the whole post, not just the part I quoted.

What I really miss in Vienna Instruments Pro is the ability to have the key switches on a different channel or use other midi control changes etc., AND make them the same across all instruments.

I find it so annoying to have the whole Matrix-A-B thingy on different keys for each instrument and to have to share the keyboard with switches.

Its easy to stick a couple of cheap mini keyboards on the main one or use another MIDI controller to do that.

I haven't really used any of my purchased Synchron Player products, so can't comment on those.

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