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Posted on Tue, Aug 13 2019 16:04
by Daniel Stenning
Joined on Fri, Jan 11 2019, UK, Posts 35

I set up a bunch of automation parameters from my Kontakt instrument ( Una Corda ) and saw them appear as names in the Cubase Quick Control list in the inspector. 

However the names of all the paremeters as passed from VEP server to VEP client plugin and onto the VST  host (Cubase ) are extremely long and unreadable. 

It would be very helpful if one could create shorter "alias" names for these parameters so that they become readable and managable in the DAW.

In fact some of this could be made automatable -  for example VEP could optionally generate just the parameter names, stripping off the channel name, plugin name, and even ( with a little bit of simple algorithmic string processing code ) remove the end name section - which in the case of Kontakt is the Kontakt Instrument name.

In any case - seems to me there's a big case for adding ability to rename automation parameters in VEP7.

( unless i've missed something in the manual and its already possibe )

Daniel Stenning attached the following image(s):
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Posted on Tue, Aug 13 2019 19:48
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1807

First of all, what you depict is just odd for VEP 7.

how it appears here

The beginning of the string "Vienna Ensemble Pro" is a thing of the past.
Here, the Kontakt instrument Thrill is represented in Cubase by "3", the number of the channel; THRILL, the name I gave to the channel; the automation name in Kontakt's Host Auto; & the name of the .nki. This I believe is the minimum communication from VEP to Host as coded. The person to verify this, btw, is Martin Saletag.

Whzt you CAN do in Kontakt is save the .nki as a very short name, and the name of the exposed parameter tends to be brief, eg., "Tine Level", and give the VEP channel a very short name.
So this exposed to Kontakt might be "73/Kontakt/Tine Level - 73".  Or compare my screenshot; to make it shorter I could change my channel name and/or the .nki name, the rest of it is de rigeur.


But again, VEP 7 at this point is revealing to Cubase what it has from the exposed parameters, and my understanding is it cannot be more minimized than this. Yours looks like VEP 6 days, though, I don't understand that unless it's down to an earlier Cubase.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7.1056, Cubase Pro 11.0.0
Posted on Wed, Aug 14 2019 08:57
by Daniel Stenning
Joined on Fri, Jan 11 2019, UK, Posts 35

This is VEP 7   and Cubase 10.30

The Kontakt instrument is Una Corda Piano  ( felt or cotton ) 

In addition I tried to edit the very long parameter string to something shorter in the Cubase inspector - for Smart Controls. BUt for some reason Cubase seems not to remember the rename once i save the cubase project and reopen it.  This is of course a Cubase issue or bug  but just makes it even more important that there's some way in VEP to have custom shorter names - aliases for use in the DAW in order to clearly see which parameter one is automating in the DAW

Posted on Wed, Aug 14 2019 16:05
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1807

Which version of VEP 7?

Really, "Vienna Ense
mble Pro" shouldn't be in there.
Current project here has around 370 para
meters (fr. Kontakt, VI Pro, Synchron Player, BFD3, LABS, Hybrid Reverb, Replika XT, ) and none has that in the string. I don't fully recall the first build of VEP 7, because it had such issues I couldn't use it, but it seems like it that was the first thing I noticed, that the old strings were just gone in favor of the actual exposed name.

I would contact support about this, that's not right. Attn M. Saletag.  Also this is who you want regarding what the string can or cannot be.

I don't have Una Corda, but Kontakt is Kontakt. I just saved an .nki as 'Bow' from '73 Stage Bowed' and while it took closing and reopening the Cubase project, it informs what the string is now. "4/73Bow/Kontakt5/Gliss Time/Bow".
I can deter
mine '73Bow' (channel name) and 'Bow'  here.

The exception is midi, where the string starts with "VE Pro plugin/midi in_"

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7.1056, Cubase Pro 11.0.0
Posted on Wed, Aug 14 2019 16:22
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1807

Originally Posted by: Daniel Stenning Go to Quoted Post

[...] important that there's some way in VEP to have custom shorter names - aliases for use in the DAW in order to clearly see which parameter one is automating in the DAW


I'm indicating to you that shorter names is already how it is. I have no idea why it isn't for you but this is a key feature of VEP 7. For Kontakt the string is channel number/channel name/Kontakt[]/parameter - nki name.

EG: Giant/Kontakt/Reso vol/The Giant. I can make the first and last as short as 'G'.

this is how it is in the automation map and in Cubase.

link to screenshot, new window:

string name, actual

 

Contact Martin Saletag. Ask him about custom string names.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7.1056, Cubase Pro 11.0.0
Posted on Wed, Aug 14 2019 16:35
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1807

I would have to constantly refer to the automation map for the number of the parameter and try to make the parameter in Kontakt match or resemble it in order to rely on memory instead, if I could (itself unwieldy) because what Cubase had was really down to that in the end. Now that problem is gone. 

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7.1056, Cubase Pro 11.0.0
Posted on Sat, Aug 17 2019 07:15
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

I've tried to make the presented parameter name as short as possible, while still keeping all information required to identify which plugin/parameter it controls.

If you have any ideas on how to improve this, I'd be happy to hear it!

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sun, Aug 18 2019 23:59
by Daniel Stenning
Joined on Fri, Jan 11 2019, UK, Posts 35

 

Is it not possible to just add the for an "alias" name that us users can optionally just set ourselves?

Posted on Mon, Aug 19 2019 08:21
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

Originally Posted by: Daniel Stenning Go to Quoted Post

Is it not possible to just add the for an "alias" name that us users can optionally just set ourselves?

I think that could be reasonable. I'm just wondering how many would actually use such a feature?

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Mon, Aug 19 2019 15:17
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1807

I would, for one or two things. What BFD3 exposes to VE Pro is a single automap; which I edited to get objective names so that I don't have their hardwired eg., 'high tom 2' where in fact I put a cymbal there, so after a point it's all ''BFD3 ch(05) gain" etc and every preset may be different. 

Short of the user-determined name, I think you could lose "Vienna" in the string 'Vienna Synchron Player"; cf., "Kontakt" is just "Kontakt", not "Native Instruments Kontakt"

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7.1056, Cubase Pro 11.0.0
Posted on Fri, Nov 15 2019 17:23
by rlw
Joined on Fri, Jan 02 2015, Posts 11

I would use such a feature to rename the parameter because I have not way in kontakt 6 to rename the automation parameter name.  I thought this was just an issue with VSTs but it is also an issue with AUs.  When the instrument scripts are locked in Kontakt and we cannot change the Automation name in Kontakt the mappings are lost everytime a VEP instance is saved and then reopened.   The parameter in VEP will all match up to first name in the automation of Kontakt.   

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Rodney L Wilson
Posted on Sat, Nov 16 2019 02:15
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1807

Originally Posted by: rlw Go to Quoted Post
When the instrument scripts are locked in Kontakt and we cannot change the Automation name in Kontakt the mappings are lost everytime a VEP instance is saved and then reopened.  The parameter in VEP will all match up to first name in the automation of Kontakt.   


I don't actually understand that last sentence, but something's very wrong on your end, 'mappings are lost when...'.
The majority of what I use in Kontakt has fixed automation (almost all SonicCouture is now, I was able to retain one earlier version which isn't sold anymore.). The only time I lose mapping is disabling the channel w. Kontakt. Same with Reaktor. I could not stand to lose automation mapping. 

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.7
VE Pro 7.1056, Cubase Pro 11.0.0
Posted on Fri, Jan 15 2021 06:19
by zigzag
Joined on Tue, Mar 02 2004, australia, Posts 45

I would DEFINITELY use such a feature. As it stands the Logic Pro smart controls revert to the VEP naming convention applied in the VEP automation...and that makes it impossible to read in Logic and the user must refer back to VEP to determine what is what. Very frustrating.

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 01:45
by stevetwist
Joined on Sat, May 18 2013, Posts 2

I too would greatly benefit from such a feature.

My DAW (Studio One) does not provide its own aliasing facility. It displays whatever VEPro transmits. In theory this is fine, but in practice it is less than ideal.

1. I use a lot of plugins that only expose a generic list of parameters. I make heavy use of Plogue Bidule, for example, as a wrapper around most of my instruments (using it to perform heavy manipulation of the MIDI input and audio output), and Bidule's parameters are simply named "Param0001", "Param0002" - not very useful. Bidule does not provide a way to rename these (it's VST2 only), so I'd love to be able to rename them in VEPro. That way I could see something actually useful in my DAW, based on how I'm using that parameter.

2. Even with generic names, the VEPro name is quite long. Even if I clear my track name (not ideal), I get something like "2 Bidule VSTi x64 - Param 0001". Now, I'm completely in agreement with how VEPro is handling these generic names - I don't think there's a better way to generate a name, by default. That said, these names cause me a problem. I use a PreSonus FaderPort 8, which communicates nicely with Studio One, and lists the automation parameter names on its display. Problem is, when the name is more than 8 characters, it gets truncated - and StudioOne does a poor job of truncating. It cuts off the unique ending of these parameter names, and leaves me with a truncated name that is identical for every Bidule parameter (e.g. "2BidVSTx"). Which leaves me completely in the dark as to which of the parameters I am controlling (typically upwards of 30 to 40).

I sympathize that both of these issues come from software other than VEPro: Bidule's inability to rename parameters, StudioOne's inability to alias automation parameters (despite it being requested in the feature requests), and StudioOne's poor job of truncating names. However, given that a discussion of parameter aliases has been opened here, and given that it seems like something that would be reasonably intuitive to add into the existing system (simply setting an alias after mapping a parameter), I'm really hoping this is a feature that VSL will add to VEPro. It is unlikely this will be addressed in Bidule or StudioOne.

Thanks!

Steve

Posted on Fri, Jul 09 2021 11:48
by Daniel Stenning
Joined on Fri, Jan 11 2019, UK, Posts 35

Well I kind of thought this would be sorted by now - and again I came across a need again. This time with the UVI plugin library Ravenscroft. 

I am using the VEP client plugin hosted inside Komplete Kontrol. 

In the mapping window the parameter names are like: 

1 RAV/UVIWORKSTATION/Reverb etc 

 

Inside Komplete Kontrol the parameters are all named 1RAVUV. Not very helpful really.

Please add some kind of alias short name feature. 

 Otherwise I'd say this parameter mapping is just useless. 

And since this is just something to make an existing feature actually USEABLE - I'd rather not have to pay for this as an upgrade. 

I've enclosed a screenshot of the VEP instance shoUwing mapping names. Its just unworkable as things are right now.  

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Posted on Wed, Jul 21 2021 05:22
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12787

Hi Daniel,

What do our colleagues at Ravenscroft say? They pick the naming scheme that is displayed. 

But it's a good idea to add a way to rename parameters, and this is also on our wishlist already. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
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