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MISSION COMPLETED: Moving from eLicenser to iLok
Last post Sat, May 21 2022 by Seventh Sam, 326 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 06:19
by DaveJ
Joined on Fri, May 25 2012, Posts 56

Hi Paul,

I have a gigabit fibre connection. Some of the downloads are comming in at 100-150 kB/s. I have a lot to download so this wont work. When I first started some of the downloads were at 50 to 60 MB/s. 

I have test the speed of my connection and get full gigabit from my provider. Is this happening because your servers are overloaded.

Thanks,

Dave

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 06:42
by DaveJ
Joined on Fri, May 25 2012, Posts 56

OK, so the speeds seem to be back up again, but they fluctuate from very low (150-300 kB/s) to very high 

at (20-30 MB/s). 

Dave

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 07:18
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13355
Hi Dave,

The spikes are probably the downloads picking up one by one.
Servers are busy bit we‘re content with the overall performance.

Thanks for your patience!

Best, Paul
Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 11:11
by musicman691
Joined on Sun, Nov 18 2012, Sopranos State - New Jersey, Posts 197

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post
Hi Dave,

The spikes are probably the downloads picking up one by one.
Servers are busy bit we‘re content with the overall performance.

Thanks for your patience!

Best, Paul
Something to add to this if I may - it may not be a single-hop from VSL to a person's home computer. And if somewheres along the way the path goes through a satellite that will factor into the download speeds. Also some isp's will throttle down speeds as well.

Jack
PT 2021.6 on OSX 10.13.6
Qapla!
Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 15:30
by Nuno2013
Joined on Mon, Apr 08 2013, Posts 4

Hi

Since i moved my licenses to iLok (cloud), Synchron Player takes ages to load (sometimes 5 minutes!).

I also noticed an increase of 5% of CPU usage for the PACE License Service process during the loading, so i think it is something related.

Can someone help me? 

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 16:15
by musicman691
Joined on Sun, Nov 18 2012, Sopranos State - New Jersey, Posts 197

Originally Posted by: Nuno2013 Go to Quoted Post

Hi

Since i moved my licenses to iLok (cloud), Synchron Player takes ages to load (sometimes 5 minutes!).

I also noticed an increase of 5% of CPU usage for the PACE License Service process during the loading, so i think it is something related.

Can someone help me? 

Get a real physical iLok and ditch Cloud anything. It's not reliable. Also what are your system specs?

Jack
PT 2021.6 on OSX 10.13.6
Qapla!
Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 16:28
by erisno
Joined on Fri, Sep 16 2016, Slovakia, Posts 39

Originally Posted by: Nuno2013 Go to Quoted Post

Hi

Since i moved my licenses to iLok (cloud), Synchron Player takes ages to load (sometimes 5 minutes!).



Are you opening an old project? As that's why it might take longer, as in the background, all eLicenser presets are being transferred to the iLok version. When you save the project and open it next time, it should be loading as fast as before.

Best,
Erik

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 17:24
by Nuno2013
Joined on Mon, Apr 08 2013, Posts 4

I thought the idea of moving to iLok was to get rid of the dongle :)

My specs are:

CPU: i7 9750h
RAM: 64Gb
Internal SSD

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 17:26
by Nuno2013
Joined on Mon, Apr 08 2013, Posts 4

No, it also happen when opening in a blank project..

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 17:42
by musicman691
Joined on Sun, Nov 18 2012, Sopranos State - New Jersey, Posts 197

Originally Posted by: Nuno2013 Go to Quoted Post

I thought the idea of moving to iLok was to get rid of the dongle :)

My specs are:

CPU: i7 9750h
RAM: 64Gb
Internal SSD

CPU speed? Operating System? Have you optimized your computer for music work? Do you have anything else running on the computer?

You NEVER want to trust anything Cloud related as the performance can really vary from semi-ok to downright miserable. iLok 3's are quite a bit smaller than the iLok 2. Sooner or later you're going to need a physical iLok for other software - trust me on that as not every developer allows iLok Cloud or iLok machine.

Jack
PT 2021.6 on OSX 10.13.6
Qapla!
Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 19:55
by DaveJ
Joined on Fri, May 25 2012, Posts 56

Ya Patience,

When I woke up this moring everthing was installed! I love the new managment software for the libraries. The move feature is great when you have multiple SSDs and have to move libraries arround for varoius reasons.

Dave

Posted on Wed, Mar 23 2022 22:17
by Nuno2013
Joined on Mon, Apr 08 2013, Posts 4

Ok, i found the culprit for slow loading times: AVG antivirus.

Now, Synchron Player starts in the blink of an eye!

Thanks for your help ;)

Posted on Fri, Mar 25 2022 03:31
by Kmetal
Joined on Fri, May 27 2016, Posts 2
Hi,

I've read all 14 pages of the thread. My question for Vienna, is how is this benefitting us? iLok gets new clients and spike in high profit USB keys, Vienna gets a better authorization service than they had, and a spike in sales for "legacy" license upgrades.

So what do we get?

So far I'm looking at $600 for 6x new iloks (or risking my computer security online) and 6x upgrades from "legacy" VEP 5/6. And to salt the wound, the Vi Pro Player I paid hundreds of dollars to buy and upgrade, is now free. And my MIR Pro and 6 Room packs won't work with iLok yet. VEP 6 was out for about a year or so before 7 was released, that's really pushing the noting of "legacy".

So this transition is costing over 600$, and nullified several hundred or prior purchases.

Veinna and iLok get a cash grab. What's in it for us? No vouchers? Not even a free sample set? Nothing?

I get why its good from a business perspective, but am failing to see any benefits for the people who fund the operations, the customer.

Can someone please tell me what benefits we gain from this transition. Vienna surely has considered us, they gave always had good products and services. What am I missing?

It seems to me like Vienna is using the customers to fund the transition they had to make due to Steinberg switching things up. Ok, but we get nothing for our money but the ability to use products we already bought? It's not even a physical product. Vienna can easily supply upgrades to iLok compatible VEP at no cost to them. They surely have recouped costs of development for VEP 7. With little effort they could generate new keys and deposit them.

I don't mind a fair price for a fair product, as evidenced by the thousands I spent with Vienna, but this just doesn't sit right with me.

What's in it for us?

Thanks.
Posted on Fri, Mar 25 2022 04:16
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13355

Hi Kmetal, 

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. 

Besides the fact that your existing setup will keep on working just like it is, license management is much more convenient with iLok, which will also allow us a few options in the future (give it just a little time to see what we have in store).

Not HAVING to use a physical key is a huge game changer for many musicians out there! So the iLok cloud, while it is not the perfect solution for everybody, is quite a change there. 

Learn more about your advantages with iLok right here. 

I'd like to fact-check a few of your statements: 

1) "So far I'm looking at $600 for 6x new iloks"

Last time I checked the price was around $50 for an iLok key. 

2) "And to salt the wound, the Vi Pro Player I paid hundreds of dollars to buy and upgrade, is now free."

This move makes many users happy and it was high on time to catch up there. No intention to cause any pain.  You paid around $115 for 3 licenses in 2017 (€108), I checked. 

3) "And my MIR Pro and 6 Room packs won't work with iLok yet." 

That must be a misunderstanding. The situation with MIR Pro is special, but MIR Pro and all RoomPacks work just fine in VE Pro 7. I'm explaining this special situation here

4) "VEP 6 was out for about a year or so before 7 was released, that's really pushing the noting of "legacy"".

I'll have to correct that as well... VE Pro 6 was introduced in August 2016 and we have pushed development with VE Pro 7 immensely in the coming years until we were ready to introduce VE Pro 7 with a single license concept in May 2019

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Mar 25 2022 12:50
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 343

Paul,

My account is still currently waiting to be i-Lok transfer approved (still waiting to board the plane, as it were).  If I purchase something, does that allow my account to begin transferring licenses?

Posted on Fri, Mar 25 2022 13:19
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13355

Hi, 

Yes, a purchase will unlock your account to switch to iLok. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Mar 25 2022 16:57
by stuenn
Joined on Sat, Jan 15 2022, Posts 3

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi stuenn, 

Thanks for posting, and sorry to see you disappointed. 

Machine-based licensing simply doesn't offer enough protection. There's nothing else to it. 

With a highly demanding production process like ours, we simply cannot afford to be hacked. 

I see that you have purchased in our webshop, so feel free to return your license within 14 days

We hate to see you go, but it would be even worse to see you so unhappy and upset. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul,

Thank you for the offer to return the license. But after playing the Steinway for a couple of days now I will NEVER do this. The sound simply right away blowed me away. I was looking very, very long for a piano sound like this. All the different microphones leave nothing to be desired! A tool that inevitably makes you creative.

Stefan

Posted on Fri, Mar 25 2022 22:18
by Kmetal
Joined on Fri, May 27 2016, Posts 2
Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kmetal,
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Besides the fact that your existing setup will keep on working just like it is, license management is much more convenient with iLok, which will also allow us a few options in the future (give it just a little time to see what we have in store).
Not HAVING to use a physical key is a huge game changer for many musicians out there! So the iLok cloud, while it is not the perfect solution for everybody, is quite a change there.
Learn more about your advantages with iLok right here.
I'd like to fact-check a few of your statements:
1) "So far I'm looking at $600 for 6x new iloks"
Last time I checked the price was around $50 for an iLok key.
2) "And to salt the wound, the Vi Pro Player I paid hundreds of dollars to buy and upgrade, is now free."
This move makes many users happy and it was high on time to catch up there. No intention to cause any pain. You paid around $115 for 3 licenses in 2017 (&euro;108), I checked.
3) "And my MIR Pro and 6 Room packs won't work with iLok yet."
That must be a misunderstanding. The situation with MIR Pro is special, but MIR Pro and all RoomPacks work just fine in VE Pro 7.I'm explaining this special situation here.
4) "VEP 6 was out for about a year or so before 7 was released, that's really pushing the noting of "legacy"".
I'll have to correct that as well... VE Pro 6 was introduced in August 2016and we have pushed development with VE Pro 7 immensely in the coming years until we were ready to introduce VE Pro 7 with a single license concept in May 2019.
Best,Paul


Hi Paul, glad you took the time to reply, just want to clarify. I'm familiar with iLok, being a user since 2006. When I got into Vienna, I was a bit annoyed to be using yet another dongle. So in that sense the migration is long over due :)

1). The $600 I started included the 6x VEP licenses and 6x iloks, $300 + $300 (presuming the vep is purchased at current sale price) my original statement was factual.

- the existing setup will work as is, but for an undetermined amount of time. There is no given time frame for how long Steinberg server's will be up, or how long I'll be able to use/replace an elicenser/Vienna key. The lack of support in an event of PC or single failure is the issue, and I think a rational concern.

- there is also the notion that licenses can't be transferred after a certain time from Steinberg to iLok, which is a strong incentive (push?) To transition sooner than later.

- upgrades aren't necessary, sure, but if the primary benefit to customers is the iLok cloud, then actually upgrades are necessary, since every edition current VEP is not supported.

- the upgrades are necessary purely because if one needs reliable operation, they have to. We are being asked to pay for Veinna's inability to make the licenses compatible.

2) right I'm happy others are happy that they're getting what was a premium product, for free. For people like me it's of zero added benefit, and feels like a bit of wasted money. And I stand corrected, the I never upgraded the VEP pro player, so it's was "a little over $100", not "hundreds of dollars'".

3) what am I misunderstanding? From the Veinna Website:

"Please note that currently only Vienna MIR Pro that’s integrated with Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 can be authorized through iLok. The plug-in version of MIR (i.e., the one that you can instantiate directly in your DAW) is currently not iLok compatible and needs a ViennaKey/USB eLicenser plugged into the computer you’re using it on."

- correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears I was factual saying my MIR Pro doesn't work with iLok yet.

4) ok "so a year or so" is corrected to "a couple years or so". Not a major disparity in our semantics.

- judging by this release schedule then VEP 8 isn't too far away. Which means the $300 I spend to for the privilege of using iLok, will keep me current for a relatively short period. And I'll again be charged for an upgrade. You have better insight on that than I do, so if you can make my assumption more correct, please do.

---

As an aside, when I bought the Vienna Suite which includes a VEP license, for €1,091 (somewhere around $1200 give or take), in Dec 2020 ie a little over a year ago, not only did it not say ahead of time it was only a single license, Vienna never told me that owners of VEP7 wouldn't get a VEP 7 license included. This was all disclosed post taking payment. Not a word before hand.

So in addition to the disappointment back then, it is now relavant since having that license could save me $50. It was far less important to upgrade when VEP 5/6 was actively supported.

---

So you can certainly see where this stuff is adding up to some disatisfaction. iLok/bro upgrade fees, No Mir Pro plugin, lack of full disclosure on a previous product omission from bundle. Unknown deadline to transfer my licences. Lack of known end of life for VEP "legacy" editions.

Ive got no doubt you've got some cool stuff in store, but at present it feels very "company centric" not customer centric.

I found your upgrade price from the older Veinna Special edition, to Synchronized Special edition very reasonable. And I upgraded even tho it was not necessary.

I think a similar ethos should be applied to VEP users. I think we are being asked to pay for something that should really be free, and certainly, if not free, at a discount rate that's much higher than the present one.

If a larger discount can't be given, then at least some vouchers towards future purchases could be inckuded.

There is nothing about this current state that feels like anything but customers getting taken advantage of. This all feels very "Avid-like' to me, and I know Veinna is better than that. At least they always were.

Thanks.

-Kyle
Posted on Fri, Mar 25 2022 23:22
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 343

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi, 

Yes, a purchase will unlock your account to switch to iLok. 

Best, 
Paul

Got it, thanks!  Another question for you: once the licenses are switched to iLok and the new sample data is downloaded, will we have to re-do any custom presets (in either VI Pro or Synchron Player) due to the new sample data or will they be able to remain intact?

Posted on Sat, Mar 26 2022 00:20
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13355

Hi, 

The presets should remain intact. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
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