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Will you still be using VI libraries in the future?
Last post Mon, Aug 01 2022 by Guin, 23 replies.
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Posted on Wed, May 18 2022 15:51
by daviddln
Joined on Tue, Feb 25 2014, Posts 236

Hello,

Now that the Synchron Orchestra is almost complete (only Solo Strings and Choir are missing), will you continue to use VI libraries? I'm just curious. As much as I love the VI Super Package, it seems to me that the Synchron Series is a big step forward. What do you think?

Best,
David

iMac 21.5, i7 4770S, 3,1 Ghz, 16 GB RAM
Komplete Kontrol S-88, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre
Logic Pro X, Finale 26
Posted on Wed, May 18 2022 23:23
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 952

yes absolutely.  For what I do, I still prefer them.  

Posted on Thu, May 19 2022 00:01
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5722

I agree with dewdman, and feel that VI is like primal musical samples that one must have.  In other words, you can have all kinds of software that is fancy and does things automatically, but if you want just pure musical sounds played by great musicians, in a silent stage that allows you to use it in any acoustic venue you want - VI is the ultimate. I have used many different sample libraries but the reason I keep coming back to VI is because it is so methodically created with regularly organized articulations among all the instruments, and adaptable to anything you might want to do acoustically.  It isn't locked into a single venue, or a single "spectacular" sound design effect, but rather it is based totally on what the symphony orchestra does -  the ensemble which evolved over centuries and is the ultimate musical expression.  It doesn't necessarily give you instant gratification, but neither does a real symphony orchestra - you have to use it and figure out how to do that.  And you can actually use VI the way an orchestrator for live orchestras uses them. 

This library after all was created by brilliant musicians and the man in charge of it is a great cellist from Viennese orchestras.  The company has always placed musical values first and the VI series shows that in a pure, intense form.   It has a truly lasting value - it is funny how I still use just as much now as twenty years ago (!)  the very first instruments they did - like the trombone, the horn, the C trumpet, the orchestral violins, etc.  And the later instruments were just as great. And with the addition of MIR which has the most simple-to-use but beautiful sound venues, it is even more powerful.  VI is essentially an endless resource for musical expression.  

Posted on Thu, May 19 2022 03:45
by kenneth.newby
Joined on Wed, Mar 19 2014, Posts 126

Absolutely agreed. VI libraries + MIR is the most remarkably versatile compositional resource available.

Posted on Thu, May 19 2022 10:39
by daviddln
Joined on Tue, Feb 25 2014, Posts 236

That's interesting. Thanks for your replies. And do you also use Synchron libraries, in addition to VI libraries? 

iMac 21.5, i7 4770S, 3,1 Ghz, 16 GB RAM
Komplete Kontrol S-88, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre
Logic Pro X, Finale 26
Posted on Thu, May 19 2022 19:10
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 344

Originally Posted by: daviddln Go to Quoted Post

Hello,

Now that the Synchron Orchestra is almost complete (only Solo Strings and Choir are missing), will you continue to use VI libraries? I'm just curious. As much as I love the VI Super Package, it seems to me that the Synchron Series is a big step forward. What do you think?

Best,
David

For sure!  They both have their pros and cons (mainly in the legato transition department, as is the case with any dry VS ambient library comparison).  One size definitely does not fit all.  Thanks to the homogenous ecosystem facilitated by Synchron MIRx or MIR, however, one can get ever closer :-)

Posted on Sun, May 22 2022 22:34
by EgM
Joined on Mon, Apr 20 2015, NB, Canada, Posts 32

I'll use VIPro+MIRx Teldex for as long as it works and I hope that it does for a very long time!


Eric E. Hache
Music Composer @ http://www.gamemusic.ca
Posted on Mon, May 23 2022 02:18
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5722

One thing that was always hyped as a feature of VI is how you can use it in any venue.  It doesn't have "baked in" reverb.  This is not just hype, it is an important feature. But now that has been forgotten apparently and now everyone wants "one-size-fits-all" reverb that is there from the beginning and can't be removed. Well, it doesn't fit me.  

The use of MIR along with VI allows you to place instruments into very different reverb/acoustic settings that you can't get normally.  Or you can use your own setup - like Lexicon hardware reverb, analog spring reverb - you name it!  This is huge for sample libraries and only the Silent Stage recorded VI instruments allow this.

That is why I think VSL should absolutely continue recording both VI and Synchron, even if it is difficult commercially. VI is distinguished from other sample libraries by this -  the Silent Stage approach that is PURE MUSIC PERFORMANCE undiluted by any acoustic environment.    

Posted on Tue, May 24 2022 09:24
by slidehawk
Joined on Fri, Jan 12 2007, Posts 24

+++1 William!

Don't be shy – make it dry. This is offers maximum flexibility for the placement in context!

Posted on Sat, May 28 2022 09:34
by Guin
Joined on Tue, May 27 2014, Posts 24

Originally Posted by: daviddln Go to Quoted Post

Hello,

Now that the Synchron Orchestra is almost complete (only Solo Strings and Choir are missing), will you continue to use VI libraries? I'm just curious. As much as I love the VI Super Package, it seems to me that the Synchron Series is a big step forward. What do you think?

Best,
David

I totally agree there's room for both.

Personally, I still find the VI solo instruments a lot easier to get the proper results than the Synchron ones, specially when the articulations require a lot more agility. VSL got it right the first time.

The VI woodwinds are, imho, the best woodwinds available. Whenever I use them, people that hear the arrangement seems to focus a lot on them, and how well they fit the overall mood of the composition.

For ensembles, short notes, and most percussion patches, that's where the Synchron different microphone benefits start to show up. But even then, as mentioned before, the dry silent stage libraries can be added for extra detail, if you can find the balance between dry/wet output.

Posted on Mon, Jun 13 2022 20:09
by jhonny.eriksson
Joined on Mon, Jun 21 2010, Sweden, Posts 70

I do not agree that the Synchron Series is a step forward. It's just different.


From my perspective, VI-series is what makes VSL unique, still to this day. Ever since the very beginning there have always been libraries that were recorded in some remarkable scoring stages and then marketed as "The Ultimate Film Scoring Library!". For many, many years VSL never fell into that trap and instead proved the VI-series to be the most detailed, versatile and flexible virtual instrument out there. It was not only for those with only film score in mind but also for everyone interested in orchestral music of different genres (not least, classical music).
I own them both and have different use cases for them, sometimes I mix them with great results.


However, if I had to pick I would always go with VI-series. I could replace the Synchron Series with other vendor products, but I could never replace the VI-superheros - there is just nothing like it.

Posted on Mon, Jun 13 2022 21:19
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1341

While I appreciate the Synchron libraries very much, for their sense of presence and the raw power they can espress, I also think they are not a replacement, but something different from the older libraries.

I must however say that I like Synchron Player more than Vienna Instruments, and use the former wherever possible. I use it without the included effects, because I think the real power of the VI instruments is in MIR.

Paolo

Posted on Tue, Jun 14 2022 02:08
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5722

Originally Posted by: jhonny.eriksson Go to Quoted Post

I do not agree that the Synchron Series is a step forward. It's just different.


From my perspective, VI-series is what makes VSL unique, still to this day. Ever since the very beginning there have always been libraries that were recorded in some remarkable scoring stages and then marketed as "The Ultimate Film Scoring Library!". For many, many years VSL never fell into that trap and instead proved the VI-series to be the most detailed, versatile and flexible virtual instrument out there. It was not only for those with only film score in mind but also for everyone interested in orchestral music of different genres (not least, classical music).
I own them both and have different use cases for them, sometimes I mix them with great results.


However, if I had to pick I would always go with VI-series. I could replace the Synchron Series with other vendor products, but I could never replace the VI-superheros - there is just nothing like it.

Definitely!  I evolved a system using VI based first upon having underpowered computers (back in around 2005), which, if I was careful, I could tweak to use VI at full power, just with more intermediate steps. Now that computers are so much more powerful and cheaper, that is no longer an issue but all the simplified setups I made - which were simplified only in technical requirements, not musical which were huge - are still valid.

Many people first coming to VI or Synchron think that you have to have a Hans Zimmer 5 Billion dollar studio or whatever he has to use the samples properly.  But actually, you can use VI with the simplest set of selected articulations on a single humble computer and play something just as well as Zimmer ever did.  It is because of the methodical sampling style of VSL and extreme purity of recording which is uniform across all the VI instruments, and allows you to create templates very easily that transcribe across radically different instruments.   This versatility I have found in no other sample library though I've used a lot of them over the years.  It is the kind of versatility that the SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA has.  It is a sound bank that has yet to be matched by anything else..  

Posted on Tue, Jun 14 2022 17:52
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 952

+1

Posted on Sun, Jul 24 2022 02:06
by JDKasunic
Joined on Mon, Jan 29 2018, Los Angeles, California, Posts 6

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this. (I'm a hobbyist). But in reading through the information/marketing for the Synchron-ized libraries, it seems that you can disable the reverb, and place the instruments in MIR Pro 3D, just the same as you do with a VI Pro/MIR Pro combination? Achieving the same sound? From this website:

"But these instruments are much more flexible. By turning off the internal convolution and algorithmic reverb of the Vienna Synchron Player the instruments of these libraries can be placed in any virtual acoustic environment, and most perfectly in the rooms provided by Vienna MIR Pro 3D"

Personally, I'm a VI Super Package/Mir Pro 3D user. I was planning on getting everything synchronized when the package is complete. Until I read this thread, I was assuming I would be able to achieve the same exact sound as the VI/Mir combo?

Nothing happens when you quit.
Posted on Sun, Jul 24 2022 22:42
by Mayyar Namek
Joined on Wed, Jun 01 2011, Posts 29

Originally Posted by: JDKasunic Go to Quoted Post

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this. (I'm a hobbyist). But in reading through the information/marketing for the Synchron-ized libraries, it seems that you can disable the reverb, and place the instruments in MIR Pro 3D, just the same as you do with a VI Pro/MIR Pro combination? Achieving the same sound? From this website:

"But these instruments are much more flexible. By turning off the internal convolution and algorithmic reverb of the Vienna Synchron Player the instruments of these libraries can be placed in any virtual acoustic environment, and most perfectly in the rooms provided by Vienna MIR Pro 3D"

Personally, I'm a VI Super Package/Mir Pro 3D user. I was planning on getting everything synchronized when the package is complete. Until I read this thread, I was assuming I would be able to achieve the same exact sound as the VI/Mir combo?

 

 

A great point, I myself have this question, Im looking for the ideal VSL for me and I really need to understand this... Could we buy the synchronized, turn off the reverb and just use it like the normal VI, this way having both worlds? Please help us more experienced users..
Thanks!

Posted on Sun, Jul 24 2022 23:36
by Guin
Joined on Tue, May 27 2014, Posts 24

Originally Posted by: Mayyar Namek Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: JDKasunic Go to Quoted Post

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this. (I'm a hobbyist). But in reading through the information/marketing for the Synchron-ized libraries, it seems that you can disable the reverb, and place the instruments in MIR Pro 3D, just the same as you do with a VI Pro/MIR Pro combination? Achieving the same sound? From this website:

"But these instruments are much more flexible. By turning off the internal convolution and algorithmic reverb of the Vienna Synchron Player the instruments of these libraries can be placed in any virtual acoustic environment, and most perfectly in the rooms provided by Vienna MIR Pro 3D"

Personally, I'm a VI Super Package/Mir Pro 3D user. I was planning on getting everything synchronized when the package is complete. Until I read this thread, I was assuming I would be able to achieve the same exact sound as the VI/Mir combo?

 

A great point, I myself have this question, Im looking for the ideal VSL for me and I really need to understand this... Could we buy the synchronized, turn off the reverb and just use it like the normal VI, this way having both worlds? Please help us more experienced users..
Thanks!

Afaik, the Synchron-ized versions are basically the VI version provided with the Synchron Stage Impulse Responses. You can turn off the reverb and use it almost like the VI version, but with Synchron Player UI. That said, in terms of realtime playability, I still find the VI version better than the Synchron-ized versions, specially when it comes to legato and performance trills. 

 

Personally, I decided to use VI's with the Vienna Instruments Pro, with the MIRx extension for Synchron Stage, and keep the Synchron Player to the new Synchron libraries that actually have multiple microphones and benefit a lot from its UI layout.

Posted on Mon, Jul 25 2022 01:00
by Mayyar Namek
Joined on Wed, Jun 01 2011, Posts 29

Giun: Thank you for your reply, that sounds great! Or isn't it? I'm a beginner, therefore could you please explain what real time playability is and elaborate a bit on that point? Thanks! 

Posted on Mon, Jul 25 2022 17:32
by Guin
Joined on Tue, May 27 2014, Posts 24

Originally Posted by: Mayyar Namek Go to Quoted Post

Giun: Thank you for your reply, that sounds great! Or isn't it? I'm a beginner, therefore could you please explain what real time playability is and elaborate a bit on that point? Thanks! 

I think it's what Paul Kopf once mentioned as "auto-trills": when using a legato patch, you hold down one note and then trigger and release another. With VI engine, it will perform as trill, or fast notes. With Synchron, it will stop after the second note, because the first one won't recall.

Posted on Wed, Jul 27 2022 20:01
by richhickey
Joined on Wed, Nov 01 2017, Posts 53

Originally Posted by: Guin Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Mayyar Namek Go to Quoted Post

Giun: Thank you for your reply, that sounds great! Or isn't it? I'm a beginner, therefore could you please explain what real time playability is and elaborate a bit on that point? Thanks! 

I think it's what Paul Kopf once mentioned as "auto-trills": when using a legato patch, you hold down one note and then trigger and release another. With VI engine, it will perform as trill, or fast notes. With Synchron, it will stop after the second note, because the first one won't recall.

The lack of that feature keeps me on VI Pro as well. I wish they would support that mode in Synchron Player, at least as an option. Most sample players behave the same way VI Pro does, and many electronic keyboardists rely on that feature for performance.

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