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Weird Reptition In Power Chords
Last post Fri, Aug 31 2007 by Paul, 20 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 00:39
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
In Horizon Overdrive's EG PERF_REP_Pwer_Chord_8-10, it seems like the first time I play the chord, it plays 5 times, then 4, then 3, then 2, then 1, then back to 5. Is this right? Why does it do this?

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 02:23
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9046
... in Vienna Instruments forum removed (overdrive is not a vienna instruments library)
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 02:33
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
cm wrote:
... in Vienna Instruments forum removed (overdrive is not a vienna instruments library)


Huh, where is the forum for Horizon instruments? I thought Horizon was a subset of VSL. I don't get it. I registered at the VSL website.

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 03:12
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9046
products from the horizon series are available for gigastudio, exs, halion and kontakt - there are dedicated forums for these formats (and we're in the kontakt/halion section here).

vienna instruments collections are a seperate format with their own player and cannot be loaded into kontakt (or any other sampler)

of course both editions are from VSL ...
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 12:18
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11379
Hi jeff,

that is the way we edited the repetitions at that time. Depending on the number of repetitions we recorded, the first repetition will contain 5 or 9 notes, the next one 4 or 8 and so on.

As the Performance Repetitions were designed to give you more flexibility in different speeds, YOU can play them as fast as you want - but NOT slower than they were recorded (which is why we recorded so many different options!).

Here you´ll find some small excerpts from the Performance Tool Video Tutorial DVD - have a look at the "Repetition Mode" to see how the system works!

There´s basically 2 rules:
1) You have to decide how many repetitions you want to play before you play the repetition.
2) Don´t play a slower repetition than the recorded one!

Best,

Paul
Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 18:24
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
Thank you for responding.

I checked out the excerpt from the video (both for Giga and EXS24). So, in Kontakt 2, how do you control the number of repetitions? Is the speed determined by the sequencer?

[My understanding is that in Kontakt 2, the features of the performance tool were incorporated into Kontakt 2 scripts, so you don't have to go throught the unweildy process of attaching the performance tool).

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 18:35
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11379
Hi Jeff,

you´re right, the Performance Tool has been incorporated into the K2 programs via scripting.

When you click on the "Tool" button next to each Performance Program, you see the features of the incorporated Performance Tool - each mode is described in the manual you have downloaded with your K2 programs!

Best,

Paul
Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 18:53
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
Paul wrote:
Hi Jeff,

you´re right, the Performance Tool has been incorporated into the K2 programs via scripting.

When you click on the "Tool" button next to each Performance Program, you see the features of the incorporated Performance Tool - each mode is described in the manual you have downloaded with your K2 programs!

Best,

Paul


I will make sure I have the manual and read it.

Thank you.

jeffn1

PS: Why do quotes look like that (I am sorry, I guess I am getting used to some new things here at VSL)?
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 21:03
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
Ok, now I am totally confused. I read through all the manuals, including the manual in the Kontakt 2 section called the Vienna Symphonic PC Setup Guide for Kontakt. I also looked at the PerformanceTool V2 manual, which does not seem to deal with the performance tool within Kontakt 2 either.

It described a convoluted process of various modes to incorporate the performance tool. It did not deal with the performance tool as a script within Kontakt. I did not see anything about clicking on the "tool" icon to modify values.

If this is user error, I apologize. Any help is appreciated.

Thank you.

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Wed, Aug 29 2007 23:58
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9046
jeffn1, in your forum profile you might have selected *do not allow BB-code* this is why quotes and other formatting looks strange - you can also uncheck the *disable BB code* box in every seperate posting.

regarding your repetition problem i have to admit i'm not familiar with the respective script and we will get in touch with the editor who created it. from the distance i'd assume you are not releasing the key early enough so the following repetitions are also played.

maybe the repetitions are fast and you have proplems to re-trigger the note-on before the next repetion already begins (something i for myself have never been able to do as not-keyboard player)
christian
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2007 00:29
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
cm wrote:
jeffn1, in your forum profile you might have selected *do not allow BB-code* this is why quotes and other formatting looks strange - you can also uncheck the *disable BB code* box in every seperate posting.

regarding your repetition problem i have to admit i'm not familiar with the respective script and we will get in touch with the editor who created it. from the distance i'd assume you are not releasing the key early enough so the following repetitions are also played.

maybe the repetitions are fast and you have proplems to re-trigger the note-on before the next repetion already begins (something i for myself have never been able to do as not-keyboard player)
christian


Thanks for responding. I think Paul said that I should be able to control the number of repetitions and the speed. I just can''t figure out how to access that using Kontakt 2.

Now that I am home, I will see if I can figure it out.

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2007 00:30
by Anonymous Joe
Joined on Fri, Oct 13 2006, Posts 229
Jeff, try to make the release shorter in the K2 ADSR or in the script area or both.
Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2007 01:07
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
Anonymous Joe wrote:
Jeff, try to make the release shorter in the K2 ADSR or in the script area or both.


Ok, I think I figured out how to change the number of repetitions in the script editor. But can you automate changes in the script (so it changes the number of repetitions in the track)? So far, what I can do only changes the number of repetitions once.

Does the speed change based on the bpm of the sequencer?

I will also look into changing the release and see how that affects it.

But, I would love to get my hands on the manual that discusses these things. I think it definitely is different than the performance tool shown in the manuals I have looked at.

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2007 01:44
by Anonymous Joe
Joined on Fri, Oct 13 2006, Posts 229
jeffn1 wrote:
Anonymous Joe wrote:
Jeff, try to make the release shorter in the K2 ADSR or in the script area or both.


Ok, I think I figured out how to change the number of repetitions in the script editor. But can you automate changes in the script (so it changes the number of repetitions in the track)? So far, what I can do only changes the number of repetitions once.

Does the speed change based on the bpm of the sequencer?

I will also look into changing the release and see how that affects it.

But, I would love to get my hands on the manual that discusses these things. I think it definitely is different than the performance tool shown in the manuals I have looked at.

jeffn1


You have to use keyswitchs to select the desired number of repetitions just before the repetitions. look at the left end of the keybord the keys should be red pink. The example in the video Paul has provided should help you.

The speed is determine by how fast you play the repetition. Obviously there are limits and that's why they have recorded different speed.

Have a look in the User area/download to get the manual. I need to reed it too. Big Smile
Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2007 07:27
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11379
Hello Jeff,

please find the manual you need WITH the K2 programs you have downloaded here. I´m sorry if that was not clear when I mentioned it earlier.

The speed does not change according to the bpm of the sequencer song. YOU determine how fast you want to play. I´d suggest to start with slower repetitions.

If you are looking for automatic fast repetitiions, you will find "fast-repetition" programs - you only need to hold down the key. If you choose a fast repetition program with Release Samples, a Release Sample will be triggered when you leave the key Smile

Best,

Paul
Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Aug 30 2007 10:42
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
Paul wrote:
Hello Jeff,

please find the manual you need WITH the K2 programs you have downloaded here. I´m sorry if that was not clear when I mentioned it earlier.

The speed does not change according to the bpm of the sequencer song. YOU determine how fast you want to play. I´d suggest to start with slower repetitions.

If you are looking for automatic fast repetitiions, you will find "fast-repetition" programs - you only need to hold down the key. If you choose a fast repetition program with Release Samples, a Release Sample will be triggered when you leave the key Smile

Best,

Paul


Ahhhh, thank you. I found the manual that goes through this. I will print this out, read through it, and have it for future reference.

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2007 00:21
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
well, I guess I am starting to deipher this somewhat, but I guess I really don't get it. This repetition mode does not seem to make creating interesting guitar parts any easier.

The obvious thing to be able to do is intersperse palm mutes and chords to create a rocking rhythm part. With all this programming, I do not see a feature that makes this easy to do. In fact, are there any chord palm mutes at all?

Sorry, maybe I am missing something here. But, I am willing to learn if anyone has any hints.

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2007 08:32
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11379
Hi Jeff,

of course there are muted repetitions available, called "perf-rep-mute".

You can also use the dynamic repetitions to create rhythmic patterns, like

110000001 or similar with a crescendo patch, where the first two notes are played piano (close to mute), the last one is a forte tone.
Once you have checked out the patterns you want to use, you can switch between different patterns!

We do agree that the repetition mode is tricky in the Horizon Series, which is why we improved it in the Vienna Instruments.... unfortunately the guitars have not been released on this platform.

You can learn a lot about the mapping of the different programs in the manual that gives you more details on the sample organization.

Best,

Paul
Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2007 11:50
by jeffn1
Joined on Sat, Aug 25 2007, Posts 16
Paul wrote:
Hi Jeff,

of course there are muted repetitions available, called "perf-rep-mute".

You can also use the dynamic repetitions to create rhythmic patterns, like

110000001 or similar with a crescendo patch, where the first two notes are played piano (close to mute), the last one is a forte tone.
Once you have checked out the patterns you want to use, you can switch between different patterns!

We do agree that the repetition mode is tricky in the Horizon Series, which is why we improved it in the Vienna Instruments.... unfortunately the guitars have not been released on this platform.

You can learn a lot about the mapping of the different programs in the manual that gives you more details on the sample organization.

Best,

Paul


Thank you for bearing with me, despite my evident frusttration,

So, isn't the perf-rep-mute just comprised of single string mutes? I don't think that is usable to create a rhythm poattern that interperses palm mutes and power chords.

But, I think you are saying that the dynamic repetions allow you to achieve this in that the piano chords are basically the same as palm muted chords?

Well, I hope it can be used like this.

I will listen to the demo mp3's too. Are there any description how the demo mp3's were done? I remembered thinking they sounded pretty good.

jeffn1
For original progressive electronic rock, check out www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
Posted on Fri, Aug 31 2007 12:14
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11379
Hi Jeff,

it takes a little time to get accustomed to the different possibilities, also because a keyboard will never be a guitar....

There are no MIDI files available for the demos, but we had a lot of fun making them Smile

I´d say: Combine a few articulations and listen through the different options - best with the manual open - and you´ll find out a lot more!

Best,

Paul
Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
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