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VI SE errors, errors, errors......Now solved with 2.0 (Mac)
Last post Fri, Mar 21 2008 by stevefire, 26 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Mar 31 2007 11:46
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Hi all,
now I'm very frustrated!
I did all you said to me: uninstalled all the files and the applications
Formatted my Raptor HD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Installated all again!!!!
Drag and drop into Directory Manager
Installed Logic upgrade 7.2.3
Installated new MOTU 828 MKII drivers
Did the same in new partition of another HD with a new System 10.4.9
I didn't create new matrix like last time but i loaded directly in Logic12 istances of VI with some patch each other.
The processors are not too much busy
My Mac is G5 Dual 2,7 Ghz 4,5 GB Ram
With Xfade on controlled by my Modwheel (control 01), always the same problems:
with Logic in stop, if I try to play one to one all the istances touching the Modwheel contols after a few istances (5 or 6) happens the errors, VI is not able to find samples I can hear only the samples stored in memory (only attak less than 1 second).
To solve this (only for a moment) I must push play or record button, in this way (I don't know why) VI reorganises the samples and so I can continue to play correctly, but only until the next error......!And than I must to push again the play button......forever......
I tried with another sequencer, the same problem!
Naturally, with Xfade off NO PROBLEMS!!!!!
But, if I use VI in standalone mode, if I load all my matrix with all the patches with Xfade on controlled by Modwheel and play each sound with keyswitch cells and touching Modwheel NO PROBLEMS, all is good!!!!!
Only in plugin mode I have all these errors!!!!!!
I can't work in this way
please try to find a solution!
Best
Stefano Maccagno

P.S
with my Opus 1 and 2 and EXS24 the same programs but with 4 layers controlled by Modwheel, works perfectly!!!!!(with almost 20 EXS24 with Opus 1 and 2 open!!!!)

A little examples:
http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=26425889qj3.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=47774320ts9.jpg
Posted on Sat, Mar 31 2007 16:19
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Are 14 istances of VI with two three until seven cells opened too much eavy for my Mac (ppc) G5 Dual 2,7 Ghz with 4,5 GB ram?
Best
Stefano
Posted on Mon, Apr 02 2007 10:06
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Anyone?
Posted on Mon, Apr 02 2007 10:22
by hermitage59
Joined on Fri, Mar 25 2005, The Slavic Cultural Empire, Posts 1050
Stefano,

Stay Tuned, I'm sure the experts will be in soon. They'll need time to think about this, and try to help in a far better way than I can.

Good Luck,

Alex.
[i:d09f9c4039][color=blue:d09f9c4039][size=11:d09f9c4039]Orchestration is the art of making your own choice.....
Genius is the art of making the right choice....[/size:d09f9c4039][/color:d09f9c4039][/i:d09f9c4039]
Posted on Mon, Apr 02 2007 11:45
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Thanks Hermitage
best
Steve
Posted on Mon, Apr 02 2007 12:29
by hermitage59
Joined on Fri, Mar 25 2005, The Slavic Cultural Empire, Posts 1050
Steve,
I'm reading through your post again, and something springs to mind that i've had some challenges with.

You've written your modwheel is on control 1.
Is this the same channel from your controller that transmits Midi into Logic?

With EXS being built into Logic, this problem is unlikely to appear, but i'm wondering if the 'MiDi' stream through to the VI plugin, is in someway causing a conflict.

I'm definitely no expert with either computer or MIDI, but i've learnt to check the obvious stuff first. And i mean no disrespect towards you if you ARE an expert. More just thinking aloud on my part. I wonder if you're overloading the midi bandwidth going into logic by crossfading. Is it worth checking your Midi bandwidth in preferences, and maybe increasing it a little? (As i understand it, Logic comes with a MIDI bandwidth default of 50%.)

Secondly, you write that standalone works fine. So i find it curious that the plugins aren't working well, unless you're hitting a RAM limit within Logic. (Logic is able to see a max of about 3.5 GB i think.)

Third, the EXs is an extremely efficient sampler, as it's a) built specifically for Logic, and b) is monotimbral. I suspect the RAM footprint of EXS is quite a bit less than VI, or any other sampler on the market.
It might be too much to expect to load the same number of instances as plugins, given that although the VI is monotimbral, it's built and designed to do a great deal more, with a much larger selection of samples to choose from. Add to that the entire concept of cells and matrixes, and you're playing and preparing by number of cells more than one articulation at the same time. At the moment I'm using a composite of 6 EXS articulations per instrument, for a normal orchestral template. I switch these by midi channel using a tool built by a very clever chap here named Kai.

The point i'm making is, For each VI plugin instance, (and remembering EXS is smaller sampler, with less RAM needed for each articulation instance) you're doing the same with one plugin, as i'm using with 6.
On top of that, the Sample purge in VI is something EXS doesn't have, so you get even more resource to use.
Next, despite the best efforts of developers, sample players or VI's can't see into the future. So if the song hits a new set of notes you've inputted, and you've already purged samples, the VI must suddenly find new samples, and this may well be a reason why you're getting a stoppage. Maybe you could try loading all samples first, before pressing play into a crossfade, and see if that helps. In EXS, all samples are already loaded (with the resulting constant RAM hit), so the instrument will play through. (This isn't always the case. Logic, for me at least, has hiccups, even with only one EXS loaded, and gives me that CoreAudio Overload message. It's not always a lack of RAM or CPU, but other overloads too, including dense midi info.)

And it may also be the case, that because the VI standalone is not 'constrained' within Logic's limits, and uses it's own Ram requirements, the system can keep up with samples, Midi data changes, etc.

I'm no expert, as i will continue to say, but maybe something here may give you a clue as to what is providing an unwelcome challenge in your system.
It is the case for me, that opening a song in Logic that is midi and sample intensive, often gives me error messages to begin with, and settles down after a couple of playthroughs. But if i change something, then hit play, Logic, and my modest little computer suddenly gets a huge spike in performance percentage, and it may take a couple of stop and starts to get everything running smoothly again. It's as if all the EXS's are cruising along like a gangster in a pink cadillac, and then suddenly there's a new speed bump in the road!

A final question.

Have you tried to run all VI instances standalone?
If so, how did your machine perform?

Regards, and good luck,

Alex.
[i:d09f9c4039][color=blue:d09f9c4039][size=11:d09f9c4039]Orchestration is the art of making your own choice.....
Genius is the art of making the right choice....[/size:d09f9c4039][/color:d09f9c4039][/i:d09f9c4039]
Posted on Tue, Apr 03 2007 08:18
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Hi Alex,
thanks for your post, a little difficoult for my english, however i hope to have understood your thought.
I don't think that the problem is the modwheel because I tried to move Xfade directly into VI plugin for each istance and the errors appears again!!!!
I post you my quikly first orchestra setup that gave me all the problems:

Piccolo: 2 cells sustain e staccati
Flauto: the same
Oboe: the same
Corno Inglese only sustain
Clarinetto: 2 cells sustain e staccati
Fagotto: 2 cells sustain e staccati
Trombe sole: 4 cells sustain e staccata, a 2 sustain e staccati
Corni 4 cells: a 4 sustain e staccati, a8 sustain e staccati
Tromboni 4 cells: solo sustain e staccato, a3: sustain e staccati
Tuba: 2 cells sustain e staccati
Violini: primi: 7 cells: sustain staccato,tremolo,pizzicati,detache,legati
Violini: secondi: like 1violins (7 cells)
Viole: like 1violins (7 cells)
Violoncelli: like 1violins (7 cells)
Contrabbassi: sustain, staccati,pizzicati

My computer is: Mac Dual G5 2,7 Ghz, 4,5 GB ram, VI is into a internal Raptor HD dedicated only at VSL.
Thanks for all
Best
Stefano
Posted on Tue, Apr 03 2007 08:51
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812
Hi Stefano, sorry to hear about your problem. I'm no expert either, but may I just ask: if you open a fresh Logic song and load just one instance of the VI, do you get the same problem?
Posted on Tue, Apr 03 2007 09:03
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Hi Conquer,
no with only one istance no problems.
In my setup I 'm able to play the first five istances, from the sixth starts errors.
If I push Logic play button I can solve for few seconds the problems, but only for few seconds.
I think the problem is to find in real times too much samples when I touch modwheel, with Xfade off no errors.
With only five istances and Xfade on I don't have any problems.
If I orchestrate a piece of music with all the istances the errors diminishes because in play or in record (I don't know why) the memory "cleans" itself.
But in random way the errors appears again.
.......sorry for my "Italian" English...........
Best
Stefano
Posted on Tue, Apr 03 2007 09:07
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
If someone, that bought VI SE, wants to try my setup, I'll send my Logic song.....
thanks
Stefano
Posted on Tue, Apr 03 2007 11:09
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13478
Hi Stefano,

please send your song to our support as well, so that we can check what´s going on: . It would be great if you could include your specs once again (CPU, OS, RAM, soundcard, Vi version, Syncrosoft LCC version) Smile

Thanks,

Paul
Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Apr 03 2007 12:00
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Hi Paul,
just done, I'm waiting for an answer
Best
Stefano
Posted on Wed, Apr 04 2007 11:43
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Hi stuff,
anybody can tell with me please?
Best
Posted on Wed, Apr 04 2007 13:00
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812
Hi Stefano, try to be patient while the experts look into your problem. They are very busy dealing with users' technical queries, but they have always found a solution for me when I ran into VSL problems.

This sounds to me like the VI is struggling to access all the samples it needs. You say your Raptor HD is internal? What capacity is it? Did you fit it inside your Mac G5 yourself?

You said the problem doesn't happen with just one instance of the VI: I'd suggest you add a second instance, then a third, and so on until the problem occurs, then tell VSL support how many instances it took to create the problem. I'd also suggest you try this test with standard (not custom) patches and see if it makes a difference.

Lastly, it would be good to run these tests using a fresh Logic song, to avoid the possibility that the Logic environment may have become corrupted. Tell VSL the results!
Posted on Wed, Apr 04 2007 14:54
by marnix
Joined on Tue, Mar 16 2004, Vienna, Posts 1006
Hi Stefano,

I just came back from Musikmesse and am working my way through the pile of mails I received last week, so please apologize this late reply!

Unfortunately, I cannot reproduce the behaviour you describe in the last arrangement you sent us, but I will look deeper into it tonight in order to hopefully find a possible culprit...

Best, Marnix
Posted on Wed, Apr 04 2007 18:47
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Thanks Marnix,
I wish to write and speak with you to explain exactly what happens in my system.
I never had some problems with other plugins and neither with Opus and EXS.
I can open more than 25 EXS with Opus and othr plugins, but with VI SE with Xfade on happens all this problems.
But I discovered an important thing: I can solve the problem if I turn off the realese samples, in this way, probably, there are less data to compute!!!!!
Before in all VI I had realese on is right or maybe heavy for my system?
Is possible that when I play every instrument with Logic in stop and with all the reaiese samples on, the system goes in overload for poliphony problems and so it can't be able to find in real time all the samples that I call during the performance? (sorry for English!!!!!!)
I think that this is the problem.,
My system work fine, HD is new and fast memory works because I never had problems before, system is upgraded, Logic is upgraded, I formatted and reinstalled all, I installed a new system in a new HD........the same!!!!!
With Opus, EWQLSO, Kontakt 2 all ok!!!!!
With Xfade programs in Opus all ok!!!!
In VI (14 Istances) with Xfade on and all realese sample on, my systen does errors.
Please help me or tell me that i'm asking too mutch from my system.
Mac ppc G5 2'7 Ghz Dual Processor, Ram 4,5 GB, VI on Raptor dedicated 10000 rpm.
Best
Stefano
Posted on Wed, Apr 04 2007 18:57
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Hi Conquer,
yes Raptor is internal, is 140 GB, yes I putted from myself but I'm non a newbe, is not the first HD that I put in my Mac, before in this HD there was Opus 1 and 2 without any problems.......I created a lot of new songs and all the same problems.....
Thanks Conquer I'm very depressed now, hours every day to solve the problem....
Best
Stefano
Posted on Wed, Apr 04 2007 19:37
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
I tried now,
new song, 14 istances, no programs Custom, only matrix original, when I play instruments with Logic in stop, quicly passages, long notes, long bichords for every istances while move Modwheel (Xfade control) from th sixth or seventh istance notes disappear and when I try to reload that matrix: errors, a lot of sample are missing:"impossible to open "100 SpecialEdition.........." and all the name of the samples..........
Posted on Wed, Apr 04 2007 20:18
by cm
Joined on Fri, Dec 20 2002, vienna, Posts 9139
hold on ... you say raptor and G5 ... it came to my ears that some G5 models don't work flawlessly with them (raptors are using NCQ but the controlle in the G5 does not ... something like that)
do you have a chance to doublecheck the same situation against another harddrive?
christian
and remember: a CRAY is the only computer that runs an endless loop in just four hours ...
Posted on Wed, Apr 04 2007 20:46
by stevefire
Joined on Thu, Dec 07 2006, Posts 60
Yes,
just done with a Lacie..........
But Raptor has always worked perfectly with all the lybraries, Opus 1 and 2 too!
With Xfade off or Xfade on and realease off all works correctly....!!!!
I'm very frustrated now!
Please help me!
Thanks
Stefano
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