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Instrument Range Chart with Hertz Grid
Last post Fri, Sep 19 2008 by Stephan Römer, 33 replies.
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Posted on Tue, May 15 2007 14:13
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
Range Chart with Hertz Grid

Part One:

"Strings, Woodwind, Brass and Saxophone"

Download link:
http://vsl.co.at/upload/users/57/RangeChart1_Strings-Woodwinds-Brass-and-Saxophones.jpg

________________________________________________

The are three range posters:

1) Strings, Woodwind, Brass and Saxophone
2) Clarinet Family, and Bass Tuba's
3) Tonal Percussion

... but they are to big for my scanner. If anyone is really interested to have this range posters, just let me know, and I will have all three scanned in a print shop. I made this three range charts in 1982 on a ATARI computer, and printed it to A4 format (letter size), and then enlarged it with a photocopy machine to poster size A3 (11.6x16.5 inch), and since then they hang on the back of the door to my my working room. For example, the clarinet family lists all 11 members from Ab sopranino down to BBb Contra-Bass, including the straight and curved model. The percussion poster has rare tonal instruments listed, such as tuned gong, boo bams, chromatic cowbells. Otherwise they are in the same design as the uploaded "Strings, Woodwind, Brass and Saxophone" page.

I hear William already: Clematide, what are you talking about?"

.
Posted on Tue, May 15 2007 14:33
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
It is all in German, here some translations:

Register:
extrem hoch = very high
hoch = high
mittel = medium (where the instrument has it's well known sonority)
tief = deep
sehr tief = very deep

Other abbrevations:
Ability = range of instrumentalist who can play far above the top range
Model = the range can differ by instrument brand
Pedal = tuba and trombone pedal notes
Überblasen = overblowing into the highest register
Curved Model = The BBb Contrabass Clarinet is build as straight and curved model
Stürze = Ab joint for the Contrabassoon, which makes the instrument the deepest in the orchestra.

.
Posted on Tue, May 15 2007 15:14
by Justus
Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005, Hamburg, Germany, Posts 41
Thank you very much!
Cool that it's in German Confused

Regards,
Justus
OPUS 1
Posted on Fri, May 18 2007 17:31
by magates
Joined on Thu, Aug 14 2003, Los Angeles CA, Posts 484
very useful, thanks.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 04:02
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5513
Thanks for bringing me up sarcastically, Angelo. I was not going to respond, until you mentioned me, because I usually ignore stupidity. But since you wanted one, here it is -

What is this trivial numerical correlation supposed to be used for?

"Oh, no, I can't write that Sonata for Soprano Saxophone! It's out of the Hertz range I was considering!"

Though if I write a Concerto for 60hz and Orchestra, I'll be sure and consult the chart here.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 04:05
by magates
Joined on Thu, Aug 14 2003, Los Angeles CA, Posts 484
Wow, William, Seriously no need to get so hostile. No one was lambasting you and then you turn around and fire some serious insults. It is useful for mixing purposes.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 04:10
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5513
A quote from I was just reading:

"Just as no one can define you with their judgments, neither do you have the privelege of defining others."

O.K., so I will say goodbye instead.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 04:13
by magates
Joined on Thu, Aug 14 2003, Los Angeles CA, Posts 484
didn't know the history between you two. Smile Just smile and let the water roll off your back.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 09:07
by DaveTubaKing
Joined on Fri, Feb 27 2004, London, Posts 757
Angelo Clematide wrote:
Stürze = Ab joint for the Contrabassoon, which makes the instrument the deepest in the orchestra.

.


Angelo, forgive me I'm not doing a William but......Even down to Ab-1 the Contrabassoon is not the lowest instrument in the orchestra. An Eb Bass Tuba can play down to E-1 a Bb contrabass tuba can play down to B-2.

Varese Arcana has the tuba playing G-1 reachable on any Bass Tuba.

In the Brass Band and Ensemble world with 2-4 tubas the lowest will often add pedal doublings in that sort of register - just listen to any Black Dyke Mills Band recordings.

Tuba really is best - and lowest.
David Carter (DaveTubaKing) http://www.davetubaking.com

W10 Pro (64bit), Z390 Aorus Pro wifi MB, Intel i7-8700K s.7 GHz, Corsair 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3000MHz, Samsung 970 EVO M.2, 2 x OCZ Agility 3 480GB SSDs, Sibelius 8.4.1, Symphonic cube, VEPro6, MIRPro, Focustite Scarlett Solo, Nvidia GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 12:19
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
DaveTubaKing wrote:
Angelo Clematide wrote:
Stürze = Ab joint for the Contrabassoon, which makes the instrument the deepest in the orchestra.


Angelo, forgive me I'm not doing a William but......Even down to Ab-1 the Contrabassoon is not the lowest instrument in the orchestra. An Eb Bass Tuba can play down to E-1 a Bb contrabass tuba can play down to B-2.

Varese Arcana has the tuba playing G-1 reachable on any Bass Tuba.

In the Brass Band and Ensemble world with 2-4 tubas the lowest will often add pedal doublings in that sort of register - just listen to any Black Dyke Mills Band recordings.

Tuba really is best - and lowest.



Dave,

I think you confuse the octaves. That lowest tuba range you say. is one octave above the contrabassoon. Can we check that out precisely? What you say would mean, that I placed the tuba one octave too high in my chart.

The lowest playable non-pedal Ab on a Basstuba in Eb is the Ab1=51 Hz. That is one octave above the lowest Ab0=25 Hz of the contrabassoon.

But if it is true that the Basstuba in Eb can play the E below the lowest Ab0 of the contrabassoon, that would be the E0=20 Hz. And then on the Kontrabasstuba in C the lowest Bb would be at 15 Hz, now that's very very deep, so deep that you hear the sound as beating.


All Hertz on the scale of A0=27,5 Hz is the lowest note on a Pianoforte.

.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 13:52
by DaveTubaKing
Joined on Fri, Feb 27 2004, London, Posts 757
Angelo sorry to be confusing.

The lowest possible note on an Eb bass tuba is E0 below the lowest A on the piano and the lowest possible note on the Bb contrabass tuba is the C-1 below that.

There are frequent orchestral examples of C1 and as I say Varese's G0.

In the solo repertoire William Kraft's encounters 2 goes down to the C-1 and indeed you feel the beats rather than here the note.

It is common practice amongst today's tuba players to put important notes in the standard repertoire down an octave and in the band world usually one player of the tuba section will specialise in doulbing notes in the lowest range for that real seat shaking rumble that only a big organ can achieve.

Unless an orchestrator is writing for an individual they know can reach those very low notes musically, they probably shouldn't risk writing notes below C0.

In the upper range it is very varied. VSL's G4 has it about right however the best orchestral players should be able to achieve Bb4.
David Carter (DaveTubaKing) http://www.davetubaking.com

W10 Pro (64bit), Z390 Aorus Pro wifi MB, Intel i7-8700K s.7 GHz, Corsair 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3000MHz, Samsung 970 EVO M.2, 2 x OCZ Agility 3 480GB SSDs, Sibelius 8.4.1, Symphonic cube, VEPro6, MIRPro, Focustite Scarlett Solo, Nvidia GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 15:39
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
DaveTubaKing wrote:

The lowest possible note on an Eb bass tuba is E0 below the lowest A on the piano...


This E0 is on 20 Hz then, and a major third below the lowest note of the contrabassoon with an a-flat joint on. And my chart is not showing the range correctly of the Basstuba in Eb.

.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 15:40
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
DaveTubaKing wrote:

... and the lowest possible note on the Bb contrabass tuba is the C-1 below that.


Holy cow, that's deep!

That C-1 is at 8,17 Hz, and is one octave below the lowest C on the Bösendorfer Imperial, or as large as a 64' organ pipe. I think there is only one organ on this planet who has a resonator like that.

Normally church organ pipes have the lowest tone at 32', for example a C0 at around 16 Hz pipe.

.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 16:11
by DaveTubaKing
Joined on Fri, Feb 27 2004, London, Posts 757
Angelo Clematide wrote:
DaveTubaKing wrote:

... and the lowest possible note on the Bb contrabass tuba is the C-1 below that.


Holy cow, that's deep!

That C-1 is at 8,17 Hz, and is one octave below the lowest C on the Bösendorfer Imperial, or as large as a 64' organ pipe. I think there is only one organ on this planet who has a resonator like that.

Normally church organ pipes have the lowest tone at 32', for example a C0 at around 16 Hz pipe.

.


Encounters II played by the virtuosi Roger Bobo is available on this disk http://www.amazon.com/Bobissimo-Best-Roger-Bobo-Barat/dp/B000003J2J

Actually I got it wrong a second time the lowest note on a Bb contrabass tuba is B-2. Being a Bb instrument the open fundamental is Bb-1 the four standard valves lower the pitch a major seventh so that the ultimate fundamental with all four valves depressed is B-2.

That same piece Encounters II goes up to Bb 4 so a range of one tone short of five octaves. The highest notated note in the solo repertoire I have seen is the F5 in Ole Schmidt's tuba concerto which means a virtuosi must have a range of five octaves and a fourth.
David Carter (DaveTubaKing) http://www.davetubaking.com

W10 Pro (64bit), Z390 Aorus Pro wifi MB, Intel i7-8700K s.7 GHz, Corsair 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3000MHz, Samsung 970 EVO M.2, 2 x OCZ Agility 3 480GB SSDs, Sibelius 8.4.1, Symphonic cube, VEPro6, MIRPro, Focustite Scarlett Solo, Nvidia GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 17:38
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
DaveTubaKing wrote:


... the lowest note on a Bb contrabass tuba is B-2


Still very deep!

There is no other instrument in the orchestra who plays a B-2 at 15.43 Hz. Back in the sixties we learned not to write pedal note for the Kontrabass Tuba's, and I never thought about it any further till now, and that today we have players who actually can play this notes.

Does Roger Bobo plays this lowest B-2 pedal somewhere on the work "Encounters II For Unaccompained Tuba" or in another composition on this compact disc. And how compact is the sound of this B-2 pedal?

.
Posted on Sat, May 19 2007 19:29
by DaveTubaKing
Joined on Fri, Feb 27 2004, London, Posts 757
Angelo Clematide wrote:
DaveTubaKing wrote:


... the lowest note on a Bb contrabass tuba is B-2


Still very deep!

There is no other instrument in the orchestra who plays a B-2 at 15.43 Hz. Back in the sixties we learned not to write pedal note for the Kontrabass Tuba's, and I never thought about it any further till now, and that today we have players who actually can play this notes.

Does Roger Bobo plays this lowest B-2 pedal somewhere on the work "Encounters II For Unaccompained Tuba" or in another composition on this compact disc. And how compact is the sound of this B-2 pedal?

.


Its the C-1 in Encounters II. (only a semitone above the B-2) i.e an octave below the Bosendorfer. It's played piano. It would not be possible to get above about mf on that note.

As well as the Bobo CD, for the most magnificently huge wall of tuba sound in the entire universe ever then this CD of six virtuosi tubas is mind boggling and very entertaining.

http://www.amazon.com/Tuba-Six-Musical-Romp/dp/B000002SKB

Plenty of the very lowest notes.
David Carter (DaveTubaKing) http://www.davetubaking.com

W10 Pro (64bit), Z390 Aorus Pro wifi MB, Intel i7-8700K s.7 GHz, Corsair 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3000MHz, Samsung 970 EVO M.2, 2 x OCZ Agility 3 480GB SSDs, Sibelius 8.4.1, Symphonic cube, VEPro6, MIRPro, Focustite Scarlett Solo, Nvidia GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5
Posted on Sun, May 20 2007 04:36
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5513
"Angelo, forgive me I'm not doing a William but......" - David Carter


What is that supposed to mean?
Posted on Sun, May 20 2007 07:23
by DaveTubaKing
Joined on Fri, Feb 27 2004, London, Posts 757
William wrote:
"Angelo, forgive me I'm not doing a William but......" - David Carter


What is that supposed to mean?


having an unnecessary strop I'm afraid. As much as I enjoy your constructive contributions to the discussions here your destructive ones too often overshadow them.
David Carter (DaveTubaKing) http://www.davetubaking.com

W10 Pro (64bit), Z390 Aorus Pro wifi MB, Intel i7-8700K s.7 GHz, Corsair 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3000MHz, Samsung 970 EVO M.2, 2 x OCZ Agility 3 480GB SSDs, Sibelius 8.4.1, Symphonic cube, VEPro6, MIRPro, Focustite Scarlett Solo, Nvidia GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5
Posted on Sun, May 20 2007 10:07
by Angelo Clematide
Joined on Thu, Sep 08 2005, Posts 1139
Dave, and of course all the others...

why does the range of what we disscuss here, not corespond with the range chart on the vsl site:

Range of the Contrabass tuba: A0 – B3:
http://www.vsl.co.at/en-us/70/3139/3153/3156/5507.vsl

On the vsl chart the lowest pedal is an Ab0. But the lowest pedal on a Kontrabasstuba is a Bb-1, which is a seventh lower then what the vsl range chart is showing.


Also found the following info, who exactly says what you already stated. Also the 8 Hertz organ pipe in Sidney is mentioned, and the information on this site seems to be how it really is:
http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html

.
Posted on Sun, May 20 2007 12:11
by DaveTubaKing
Joined on Fri, Feb 27 2004, London, Posts 757
Angelo Clematide wrote:
Dave, and of course all the others...

why does the range of what we disscuss here, not corespond with the range chart on the vsl site:

Range of the Contrabass tuba: A0 – B3:
http://www.vsl.co.at/en-us/70/3139/3153/3156/5507.vsl

On the vsl chart the lowest pedal is an Ab0. But the lowest pedal on a Kontrabasstuba is a Bb-1, which is a seventh lower then what the vsl range chart is showing.


Also found the following info, who exactly says what you already stated. Also the 8 Hertz organ pipe in Sidney is mentioned, and the information on this site seems to be how it really is:
http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html

.


Well many instruments have extremes of range that would be outside any general guidance as to range. Certainly with the tuba the more extreme the range the more difficult it is for players to play and the less musical the quality of the sound. Only a small handfull of tuba virtuosis can achieve the extreme range.

Take the trumpet. There is a recent release by Malcolm McNab http://www.malcolmmcnab.com/exquisite.html where he plays the entire Tchaik violin concerto at pitch the highest notes are around C7 and in the cadenza he goes down to C1. The lower two to three octaves are "faked" and there musical worth is questionable but you won't find any range guide iwth the trumpet having a six octave range.

The lowest sensible note on a Bb trumpet with three valves is E3 but players can achieve the pedal register Bb2 to E2 and fake lower notes but there musical value is questionable.

The highest notes on an Eb tuba is usually around Bb4 but some players can go up to F5 and if you sing falsetto into the tuba you can fake higher notes but again these xtremes are of questionable value.

There is no exactly precise answer when it comes to range. Not only does it depend on the ability of the performer but it also, particularly in the case of the tuba, depends what instrument he's playing. tuba in F, Eb, CC, BBb.

So any range guide has to compromise with averages. In my view the average range for a proffesional tuba player of consistent musical value would be C1 to G4.

It maybe that these possible extremes of register and the ability to fake extreme lower notes is peculiar to brass.

As I always say, if you want to explore the extremes of register you have to know the individual player your writing for.

The Malcolm McNab CD is an absolute must - astonishing.
David Carter (DaveTubaKing) http://www.davetubaking.com

W10 Pro (64bit), Z390 Aorus Pro wifi MB, Intel i7-8700K s.7 GHz, Corsair 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3000MHz, Samsung 970 EVO M.2, 2 x OCZ Agility 3 480GB SSDs, Sibelius 8.4.1, Symphonic cube, VEPro6, MIRPro, Focustite Scarlett Solo, Nvidia GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5
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