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right tecnique for legato strings
Last post Sun, May 27 2007 by lorenzo, 16 replies.
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Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 09:50
by fulx
Joined on Wed, Apr 18 2007, Italy, Posts 17
Hello,
anyone have some suggestion for playing a good legato string with vienna instrument.

bye
Fulx
Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 11:39
by Conquer
Joined on Thu, Sep 28 2006, Posts 812
Yes - load a perf interval patch and play it with overlapping notes (the opposite of what your piano teacher taught you) to make sure the legato intervals are triggered.
Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 11:48
by pbourke
Joined on Sat, May 06 2006, Kitchener, Ontario, Posts 52
Hi - What is meant by overlapping notes?
Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 11:57
by JWL
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Posts 1274
Overlapping MIDI notes in your MIDI Editor-- Logic, DP, and Cubase use a 'piano roll" type of MIDI editor. Each note is represented by colored horizontal a bar. The cutoff point for each note is dragged to the right so that it overlaps slightly with the beginning of the next note.

This graphic is courtesy of Beat Kaufmann's site. Lots of great tutorials.
http://www.beat-kaufmann.com


http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/images/vilegatosingleartic2.gif
Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 12:19
by fulx
Joined on Wed, Apr 18 2007, Italy, Posts 17
hello JWL,
is possible for you attach a little little sequence, 5 or 6 notes midi and wma of legato violin.
bye

Fulx
Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 15:22
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1723
fulx wrote:
Hello,
anyone have some suggestion for playing a good legato string with vienna instrument.
bye, Fulx

Imagine to play the melody with a bow and draw the up and downstrokes.
Don't play endless legatos with strings because the bows of strings do not have an endless lenght.
Please have alook here:
http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/gentutorials/stringarrangements/part3/index.php#033ff4990a0a0f804

All the best
Beat
www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 15:39
by fulx
Joined on Wed, Apr 18 2007, Italy, Posts 17
thanks Beat,
I think that I will visite your site... better
And i have prove the JWS suggestion. For me is right

Best
Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 18:04
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1981
I would imagine that in a strings ensemble not one player is exactly synced with the next which gives this ever slight overlap between them thus giving a smoother legato. If every player were to changed note 100% perfectly synced with the next guy it would probably give the same effect as when we don't overlap with our samples. We must keep in mind that a single violinist cannot physically overlap 2 notes unless he's changing strings, but as a group we do get this overlap effect.
Posted on Fri, May 25 2007 23:59
by JWL
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Posts 1274
Guy wrote:
I would imagine that in a strings ensemble not one player is exactly synced with the next which gives this ever slight overlap between them thus giving a smoother legato. If every player were to changed note 100% perfectly synced with the next guy it would probably give the same effect as when we don't overlap with our samples. We must keep in mind that a single violinist cannot physically overlap 2 notes unless he's changing strings, but as a group we do get this overlap effect.


This is very true, Guy. Good observation. I call it The Smear. Big Smile

fulx wrote:
hello JWL,
is possible for you attach a little little sequence, 5 or 6 notes midi and wma of legato violin.
bye

Fulx


My apologies, Fulx. I am in the process of setting up a website to post soundbites, but projects tend to be a big 'distraction'! [Wink] This is necessary because we cannot post soundbites directly to this forum.

Besides, fellow-members Beat Kaufmann and hetoreyn have wonderful tutorials online already which are far better than anything I could provide. I am really glad that Beat chimed in for you. His site has wonderful "before/after" soundbites that demonstrate just about anything you could imagine.

Cheers and best wishes!
Posted on Sat, May 26 2007 01:15
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1723
JWL wrote:

Besides, fellow-member Beat Kaufmann has wonderful tutorials online already which are far better than anything I could provide. I am really glad that Beat chimed in for you. His site has wonderful "before/after" soundbites that demonstrate just about anything you could imagine.
Cheers and best wishes!

Surpriseops:
Beat
www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sat, May 26 2007 04:09
by JWL
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Posts 1274
Beat Kaufmann wrote:
JWL wrote:

Besides, fellow-member Beat Kaufmann has wonderful tutorials online already which are far better than anything I could provide. I am really glad that Beat chimed in for you. His site has wonderful "before/after" soundbites that demonstrate just about anything you could imagine.
Cheers and best wishes!

Surpriseops:
Beat


Yes, Mister K. I'm probably your biggest fan! [Wink] Stick out tongue
Posted on Sat, May 26 2007 07:12
by fulx
Joined on Wed, Apr 18 2007, Italy, Posts 17
Beat and JWl,please be patient, It's a new world for me.
so I have another little question:
I can use the same technique (overlapping note) for brass and woodwind Legato
Fulx
Posted on Sat, May 26 2007 08:31
by nliberg
Joined on Fri, Dec 02 2005, Posts 232
fulx wrote:
I have another little question:
I can use the same technique (overlapping note) for brass and woodwind Legato
Fulx


Yes. They work in the same way.
Posted on Sat, May 26 2007 08:57
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1723
JWL wrote:

Yes, Mister K. I'm probably your biggest fan! [Wink] Stick out tongue

Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops: Surpriseops:
Thanks, my dear JWL
Beat
www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sat, May 26 2007 09:41
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1723
fulx wrote:
Beat and JWl,please be patient, It's a new world for me.
so I have another little question:
I can use the same technique (overlapping note) for brass and woodwind Legato
Fulx

Yes, like nliberg remarked. This overlaping of notes triggers the VI to play legatos.
But to be a bit more precise:
If the note-off-midi-order is closer than 50ms to the start of the next note-on-midi-order the VI connects these two notes with the corresponding legato sound. This work was done by the Performance Tool in the past. So in principle it isn't necessary to overlap midi notes to get the legato sound. But if you are using legato samples it is a good optical help for yourself to have a clear difference legato=a little overlaped / no legato = distance > 50ms. I took over this "overlapping" from the good old days with the Performance Tool, which really used overlapping notes to trigger the legato. It always helped me to have an overview of the sample handling. Check once more the upper picture.


If you are a VI-beginner I recommend (beside the film-tutorials of VSL) to go through this short tutorial "From a MIDI-file to a VSL Audio Track"
http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/vimidi/index.php

All the main questions are touched.


I whish you every success with this matter
Beat
www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Sun, May 27 2007 01:21
by lorenzo
Joined on Wed, Sep 13 2006, Posts 33
Hi,

perhaps loading the same or different strings patch on 2 different midi
channels and playing with volume automation can be efficient.

Off topic:
i am really impressed by the generosity and methodology

of SIR Beat kaufman in this world of competition.

regards

Laurent
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