For those not following the discussion elsewhere, some are claiming to have access to more than 4 GB (3.7 practically, as we know, and sometimes crashing at 2.7) on computers without Leopard. Others (like Stupid8Track) say that they have tried and it isn't working for now. I remember the great detail that S8T posted a couple of years ago, trying to get two Logics to run on one computer -- largely in an effort to solve this very RAM limit. He was thorough and diligent, and I respect his reportage.

Still others say that it won't work unless 8GB or more of hardware memory is loaded into your Mac.

Since some notables on this forum have been quiet on the subject, I suspect it is not yet confirmed. A lot of the discussion has swirled around the definition of 64-bit. I don't care what 64-bit means in this context. I just want to know if an old Mac that has 8 GB of memory can crack the previous EXS load limit on 10.4.10.

I currently have 6.5 GB loaded on a DP 1.8 running the latest OSX. I hope to test the matter in the next few days. But if it is only possible with 8 GB or more in the Mac, my experiment would be of limited value.

Thanks Dom. I waded through that compendious large thread and found S8T's later discovery.

"if a song is close to 3.5 GB in L7 and i add EXS instruments to it (with VM active in EXS), the program will crash.

"with EXS VM active, if a song is close to 3.5 GB in L8 and i add EXS instruments to it, they are added to the song and i can play them. the program doesn't crash. even if i add 20 instruments to the song, they are all still playable."

Hey S8T ! It's good to see you here again! Yeah, I've lost paragraphing too.

My own results after three hours' fiddling are curious. I'm on a dual 1.8 running OS 10.4.10 with 6.5 GB. I'm looking at AM, and I've got 1.94 GB in Logic, other programs add to about 100 MB, *but* AM is telling me that I've got 5.70 GB used and 816 MB left. VM is 7.81 GB. Two curiosities. 1. I kept loading and loading, and the Logic Pro "Real" didn't budge. Then I loaded just another EXS patch, and the Free read-out came tumbling down by about .6 GB in one big swoop. 2. I was able to coax a "Not Enough Memory" prompt out of Logic 8. I re-loaded a song at "disk drive fast," then changed it to slow, and as it re-loaded everything, the prompt came. It wouldn't re-load the remainder of saved patches nor could I manually load more EXS samples. But so far, with "fast" set to disk drive speed, I can't inch up far enough to get near the RAM limit. Like you, this isn't a real world test. but I'll note this much: Logic 7 would have stopped immediately with this load, and I can play-through in Logic 8. I don't want to get too caught up in the matter because Leopard will make this one great big moot point. Always good to read you.

Folks, do check out that thread. It is exhaustively detailed and verified.

I've frequently thought that the "one computer orchestra" is a misnomer because we are constantly re-defining just how much that one orchestra includes. But whatever it may be, we have taken a fantastic step towards the "one computer orchestra."

And anyone who has a second Mac and upgraded from Logic 7 has a complete SECOND orchestra driving 7 (with its XSKey) by MIDI with his Logic 8 computer (which requires no key).

Okay, why am I hitting RETURN ? This is all one big ugly block of text. S8T, I salute you sir and hope you can return to your composing.

A good question.

I'm running a dual 1.8 G5, and I routinely ran out of CPU (long before I ran out of memory). I was at 6.5 GB, and I maxed it out to 8 GB with the advent of Logic 8. I bought 2GB at Crucial for 131 USD out the door. Of course, I had to pull out the 2 x 256 MB DIMMS to accommodate the max 8 GB.

Now there are four ways in which performance has improved.

1. Logic / EXS handles more RAM (even though it is not fully documented in Activity Monitor).
2. Having more memory allows you to load more of the sample headers (disk speed slow), hence smoother playback.
3. Logic 8 has a safety I/O buffer that seems to be helping.
4. Somehow, Logic just processes playback differently. I can push the CPU to the limit and playback continues. I'm *not* saying that you can't CPU overload -- the threshold just seems higher before stopping. And I noticed that before upgrading the memory count.

You have an even faster computer, so your mileage may improve.

But let's look at two other indicators.

A. As your G5 will become a slave computer, you may be able to run 4 GB outboard EXS from Logic 7 (with its XS Key) and 4 GB of Vienna Ensemble. (The CPU remains a limiting factor. But the rules might be different for a slave computer in that it's used as a palette extension, and the amount of samples loaded may not translate as directly to lost CPU because, in theory, less would be asked of the slave, and it would be mostly relieved of its MIDI burden.).

B. Currently the dollar is falling against other currencies. The G5 memory prices that I was following actually went higher last month, and I assume that was tied to the dollar.

Summary: in the short-term, you'll get some improvement with more memory and Logic 8. And in the long-term, it's a good investment in the computer farm you could have.

Woohoo, paragraphs. Thanks!

I'm glad the reponse was of help. Now, a few days later, I feel the need to sound a note of caution. The four points I made still hold true, but as my RAM loads creep ever higher, the old CPU issues have resurfaced. So the net gain is a larger palette, and if you can tolerate bouncing, it's good news. But I'm still taking a CPU loss with loaded RAM.

"Do you (or anyone) have experience slaving a Logic 7 farm to Logic 8?"

I don't. Like you, I only have one Mac. But I have confirmed through other forums that the XS Key is only needed when upgrading. It can then be attached to the slave computer, and Logic 8 will run on the master computer even when they are connected in a network. This means those who upgraded from Logic 7 and have a second G5 now have a stand-alone EXS unit.

The catch is that we lose offline bouncing with external gear. That's bigger than I thought it would be. I built a core template on my PC (Giga) thinking I'd use that for the basic sounds and keep EXS loads to the per song articulations. But I found I don't have the patience for live bouncing. It would be quite splendid if Apple / Logic allowed us to offline bounce EXS from other computers. I know that we can't node live with EXS, but when real-time is removed from the equation for an offline bounce, maybe the code writers could pull it off.

"I can run K2 on the G5 and use it to translate EXS instruments...." I don't know K2, but yes, that sounds feasible. The truth of most non-performance VSL instruments is that they have very straight-forward keymapping, and they translate well. VSL used some filtering with brass instruments. That probably won't translate, but it shouldn't be too hard to re-program filters in K2 by hand. I don't know what the Legato Tool situation is with K2, but I have successfully translated perf-leg instruments from Giga to EXS.