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Voting for umpcoming recordings
Last post Sun, Mar 02 2003 by avatarprod, 33 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Feb 10 2003 19:02
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
Hello all,

we are just scheduling our upcoming recordings for the "Symphonic Cube" (the Pro Edition recordings are almost done)

There will be new Performance Tools, new playing styles of existing instruments, but also a lot of new instruments and ensembles.
We just want to find out, which preferences you have. So we can focus on the most needed parts.

Here some explanation for the different categories:

Small string ensembles - section sizes half of our existing string ensembles: 7 / 5 / 4 / 3
Thought for more intimate string arrangements, divisi, and of course layering with the big sections

Woodwind ensembles - 3 flutes/oboi/clarinetts/bassoons

large Horn ensemble - 8 players / and this time the common French horns

Solo Viola & solo bass - solo violin and cello are already included in the Pro Edition.

Sopran & tenor saxophone - the first two out of the saxophone family, focus will be on orchestral context (but not all Cool )

Please keep in mind, that each forum member can only select one categorie.

thanks a lot
Posted on Tue, Feb 11 2003 16:56
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
Surprise "bump"
Posted on Tue, Feb 11 2003 18:05
by MartinL
Joined on Wed, Oct 23 2002, Montreal, QC, Canada, Posts 103
Hi Herb,

As someone suggested in another thread, I think woodwinds ensemble by pairs (instead of 3) could be very useful. In the choices you proposed, my first choice would be towards woodwinds...

I know I am not allowed to choose more than 1 category, but solo viola & bass are also a must...


Martin Lachance, Composer
Posted on Tue, Feb 11 2003 19:12
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
Don't worry, we will not cancel any instrument on the list. We just want to know where the prefences are, to focus a little more on these votes.

I would say the major reason not to sample "groups" with two instruments are tuning issues. Two instruments don't mix very well, you just hear every minor tuning problem. Its very hard for the musicians.

I can't remember a orchestral piece where two equal soloinstruments have to play unisono completely solo (all other instruments tacet).
Posted on Tue, Feb 11 2003 19:15
by csduke
Joined on Sun, Feb 02 2003, Chicago, Posts 108
Woodwind Ensembles

It's a missing element in the world of quality samples.

Craig Duke
Craig Duke
Posted on Wed, Feb 12 2003 01:54
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726
I have to vote for saxophones, the most maligned and least represented instruments in the classical orchestra. I have always thought that they fill a gap in the mid range of the orchestral woodwind section that no other instrument can supply.
Posted on Wed, Feb 12 2003 06:54
by esperlad
Joined on Thu, Nov 07 2002, Posts 233
My vote would be for solo viola and bass.
Posted on Wed, Feb 12 2003 11:37
by Matt 1
Joined on Wed, Dec 11 2002, France, Posts 308
Hi Herb!

Well my favourite would be stringsections (small or large) that have a vibrato that could be almost described like this:

Glimmering (schillernd), so that you could almost hear every single violin vibrating.

Hope you understand what I mean since f.ex. the detaché strings of Garritan sound very close to that!!! I cannot describe it in other words - sorry for that.

Hope you get the right idea anyway - I am convinced you will!

Best regards,

Posted on Wed, Feb 12 2003 23:50
by eliam
Joined on Fri, Jan 31 2003, Posts 9
solo viola and bass!
Posted on Thu, Feb 13 2003 15:27
by Peter Alexander
Joined on Wed, Aug 21 2002, Virginia, Posts 642
If you follow the string ensembles with the woodwind ensembles, there's no further need to use Miroslav.
Peter L. Alexander
Author, Professional Orchestration Series
Posted on Fri, Feb 14 2003 11:02
by Klaus
Joined on Tue, Oct 22 2002, Munich, Germany, Posts 17
Small String ensembles and the solo viola. I would do these first.
Posted on Sat, Feb 15 2003 04:38
by NG1
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Posts 193
I was initially suprised to see 8 horns as one of the choices on this list. I've never come across a score that called for that many horns in unison. But that got me to thinking - is a huge horn section how Jerry Goldsmith gets his incredible horn sound? If Peter Alexander sees this post, I bet he might know...

It's certainly intriguing.
Posted on Mon, Feb 17 2003 05:59
by Tripit
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Hollywood, Ca., Posts 350
Film composers and orchestrators often gang the various horn sections into unison. Just about every action film has examples of this.
Posted on Mon, Feb 17 2003 07:39
by theiss1979
Joined on Mon, Jan 27 2003, Hessen, Germany, Posts 134
Hi Herb,
as a trumpet player in a brass choir - I will prefer to see a bigger horn ensemble.
See you on the Musikmesse in Frankfurt Wink
Posted on Mon, Feb 17 2003 16:20
by Thomas_J
Joined on Sat, Nov 30 2002, Posts 48
As commonly misunderstood "horn section" in the classical orchestral sense does not imply a section of french horns, trumpets, trombones (and tuba(s)) - but a FRENCH HORNS section [[[[Smile]]]]

Oh and btw, 8 horns are quite unusual but 6 are very common.
The trademark Goldsmith Horn sound comes from micing the instruments fairly distant (a hotter A/B (conductors mic) pair signal) that allows the horn sound to travel around in the hall (resonate) and evolve into their full, thick and beautiful smooth sound before it is picked up by the mics.

James Newton Howard and James Horner are also fond of horns.
Horner utilized two sections of 4 horns on each side of the recording stage for his score to "The Perfect Storm", with great effect.

James Newton Howard challenged his musicians in "Wyatt Earp" and wrote high E, 5 or 6 times in one cue. First for solo horn and later for the horns in unison. They appear to have no trouble at all on the score [[[[Smile]]]]

My vote is for this horn section of 6-8 french horns.

Intimate divisi (two desks perhaps?) strings would be nice too!

All of the available alternatives are of interest to me, except saxophones.
I truly hate those instruments in orchestral settings. If you were to sample
saxophones it would have to be recorded with solo jazz in mind, I think. This is where the instrument is at home. Calling for saxophones in an orchestral piece is like building a Zoo on the North Pole with exotic tropical animals from Africa....

I served one year in the army as a musician in an army band, and even though the musicians were great the sound of the saxophone group started to annoy me very quickly. The massive clarinet choir was also a tad too much for my liking [[[[Smile]]]] (Clarinets and soprano saxes are pretty similar in sound in tutti parts)

Clarinets in unison is also a terrible sound. Closer to an accordion than anything else. Having said that, though, the dynamics of the clarinet (from whisper soft to loud and blaring) by far outweighs the sonic deficiencies [[[[Smile]]]]

Oh, I'm rambling [[[[Smile]]]]

6-8 Horns!!

Posted on Tue, Feb 18 2003 04:34
by NG1
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Posts 193
Thanks for the insight Thomas. I would be interested in two-desk string samples as well.

Also interesting is that no one has yet requested 28 violins in unison (VI plus VII.) I suppose you could double the existing violins with the half section and get most of the way there, however. Personally, I would be interested in additional string techniques (several have been requested already) in great depth before I would want a combined section. There are just so many different string techniques it seems daunting to have to duplicate the enitre effort with all the different possible section sizes.

And in addition to 8 horns, perhaps 76 trombones?... [Wink]
Posted on Thu, Feb 20 2003 21:46
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
Thanks for the 50 votes - another 50 would be cool.

Here a little VSL story (50 votes = another story):

Our 2nd Tubular bells set - the Philharmonic version,
were built at the beginning of the last century.
They are very special, because they have a greater key range (d#3 - g5) than modern tubulars.
I've been told these are the lowest tubulars in the world. - Maybe.

During second world war they were stored in a massive wood box in the Vienna Opera. The Opera was bombed and burnt down.
But the Tubulars in the woodbox survived!!
Yeah, every time I play this d#3 tubular on the keyboard I feel awestruck.

VSL story 1
narrated by Herb

(Don't forget every 50 votes comes another story, and there are plenty of them...)
Posted on Thu, Feb 20 2003 22:29
by Iwan Roth
Joined on Thu, Nov 07 2002, FRANCE, but Swiss....., Posts 222
Hi Thomas,

I appreciate you taking a very clear position about the classical saxophone I do not mean to discuss about your taste and your opinion, but I am not really sure if you have heard some well played saxophone and clarinet. I mean the players from your army band are probably not the highest standard.... If you have the opportunity to go to the latest movie from Steven Spielberg - I did see it in spanish, so I do not know the english title -, but it must something like ¬Run as fast as you can¬with Leonardo di Caprio. The music is composed by John Williams and there is an important saxophone part in a very classical styled music. IMHO, the saxophonist has a very beautiful sound and blends perfectly in to the rest of the orchestra.

Despite this, I do not really wish to have saxophones samples in VSL Wink

Iwan Roth
Stick out tongue
Posted on Fri, Feb 21 2003 02:37
by BC
Joined on Fri, Jan 17 2003, Posts 32
Iwan Roth wrote:
Hi Thomas,

I did see it in spanish, so I do not know the english title -, but it must something like ¬Run as fast as you can¬with Leonardo di Caprio. Iwan Roth
Stick out tongue

It was apparently a very unidiomatic translation to Spanish. the English title was "Catch Me If You Can" which Bablefish translates to Spanish as "cójame si usted puede".

I agree with you, Iwan, about the beautiful, period saxophone music. I disagree about the inclusion of sax in the Library.Wink And, BTW, I have listened to your creations at your site. Gorgeous!


Posted on Fri, Feb 21 2003 03:28
by JamesGrote
Joined on Thu, Feb 20 2003, Posts 5
My vote = Small string ensembles

Can't have enough string performances and variations.

Btw, love this site!! Thx for listening to our input!
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