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  3. Halion Edition-Yes or No

  • Halion Edition-Yes or No

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    S
    Hello,

    Just wondering if you could let us Halion users off the hook by letting us know if there will ever be a Halion (24 bit) edition.

    It would probably be better for the Halion userbase to know once and for all, so that we might:

    1) Go ahead and purchase the Giga edition and spend countless hours getting it to work.

    or

    2) Pursue other options (QLSO, SAM (which is producing a Halion version), etc.

    If you are considering porting the library, I believe pinkcanary of the Steinberg Halion forum has been porting libraries for Bela D. and could perhaps offer suggestions.

    Best wishes for 2004,
    spiro
  • S
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    I'll second that :
    I'm in the process of choosing a mid-level library, and Opus 1 would have my preference, because it sounds more to my taste than EWQLO Gold does.
    But Gold is not that bad, comes with its own player (not Halion ok, but all the job is done). On the other hand, having to translate more than 10 Gb of VSL's samples and tweak hundreds of programs in Halion is not a really appealing idea for a base user/hobbyist....
    If VSL serioulsy considers an Halion version, I may wait a while. Otherwise, I may go for EWQLSO very soon.
  • C
    C
    I'd like to add my voice to the call for Halion or Kontakt versions of VSL.

    Translating the pro edition seems demoralizing and monumental. But I've nearly finished translating Opus 1 into Kontakt and the only patches that need to be tweaked are the ones that cross-fade between velocity layers using velocity or mod wheel. The rest import fine. You can do it while talking on the phone or watching TV. And setting up the performance tool to work in Cubase is trivial. I don't understand VSL's cool response to the idea and the talk of "90% of people experience unresolved midi loops." If you like the VSL sound better than QL you should buy VSL. They've opened the door with the Horizon Series and will learn in time how to reach out and sell to a larger market.
  • E
    E
    I think there is no need for VSL developers to produce such versions. Upcoming Gigastudio 3 will be able to function like Halion and Kontakt (like VSTi). And i think giga format is the most convenient way to organize such sample library (blank programs for example).
  • S
    S
    >>I think there is no need for VSL developers to produce such versions. Upcoming Gigastudio 3 will be able to function like Halion and Kontakt (like VSTi). And i think giga format is the most convenient way to organize such sample library (blank programs for example).>>

    Oh, Giga3 comes to MAC - interesting! (why must PC users always think they are the WORLD?????)

    I would also like a HALion or Kontakt port - these are great products and they do not force people to adapt to them - but can be used on computers!

    Best
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    @steff3 said:


    Oh, Giga3 comes to MAC - interesting! (why must PC users always think they are the WORLD?????)


    I realy don't know. But Mac users have EXS version of VSL. And as i know, EXS24 is not the weakest sampler in this world (if not to say opposite). There is also EXSP24 sample player (vst 2.0 format), so you can use it in host other then Logic (trully to say, i don't know the difference of playback possibilities (if any) between EXS24 and EXSP24).
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    please note VSL supports EXS24 mkII only and there is no way currently to run the performance tool within another version
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • S
    S
    >>But Mac users have EXS version of VSL. And as i know, EXS24 is not the weakest sampler in this world (if not to say opposite). >>

    To be honest - you can only use the exs24mkII implementation in Logic Platinum (which excludes other versions of logic) So VSL is not compatible to a sampler on Mac but to a version of one DAW.

    There are sample lib developers that say, that they cannot port their libs to exs because it has not as much possibilities as HALion or Kontakt. Which is true.

    There are two great points about the exs:
    1) it is much more efficient than Kontakt or HALion (getting about 2-3 times the voices - with the same programs).
    2) it has something like a librarian/database - and with the exs manager not to bad.

    3) the exs-part on this forum (with lots of nice and acknowledged people) - well, HALion forum is great, too.

    But the VSL exs runs exactly in one version of a program - precisely taken it does not support a sampler on Mac but a sequencing program. For non logic platinum users it would be less expensive and less of a hassle to use and integrate VSL if it would support open platform-samplers. (Well, this means more Kontakt than HALion on OSX)
    I ordered to horizon libs - (and I can only stress the great support I got from VSL!!! great company!!!) another would be interesting - but as there is no statement of future development and about sampler-platform-crossgrades I will think twice about it. EMagic lately shows a bit of a strange behavior (go to Sounddiver yahoogroup and read post of Mr Michael Haydn about the OSX beta). I find it a bit too aggressive how they try to sell Logic (same with VSL only in Platinum).
    Is Logic the sampler or exs?

    Personally I like more to get positive arguments why I should better use Platinum instead of Gold, but somehow emagic seems to take another route - which I do not like.

    I will see how I get these libs to work - buying Platinum would be the last step - pressure just generates pressure against it!

    Just my thoughts.
    Best,
    Steff
  • S
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    @Another User said:

    'I think there is no need for VSL developers to produce such versions. Upcoming Gigastudio 3 will be able to function like Halion and Kontakt (like VSTi). And i think giga format is the most convenient way to organize such sample library (blank programs for example).'


    But why would we want to buy and learn yet another program just to get a VSL VSTi implementation? I'm not interested in learning/aquiring more software, I'm just trying to write music...the tools should be as convenient and transparent as possible.

    -spiro
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    @Another User said:

    Go ahead and purchase the Giga edition and spend countless hours getting it to work.


    Putting it politely, that's just ridiculous.

    WHAT THE HECK ARE ALL YOU PEOPLE SHOUTING ABOUT?! Giga works *beautifully,* and so does EXS24 - especially with VSL. You can easily manage 40 VSL programs in a single machine and not encounter any programs. What more can we ask for?

    If there are features you feel are missing in these samplers - or if you'd like to see the EXS equivalent of VStack - fair enough. That's legitimate. But otherwise I feel this is just battling windmills.
  • A
    A
    I haven't run Giga for ages. Reason: it's an isolated island. Can't use realtime plug-ins with it (UAD-1 and Powercore) and doesn't benifit from the flexible Nuendo bus routing function. One just has to record them into audio tracks before anything else. What if I want to change a note? I'd have to launch everything again, instead of simply changing that note while working with Kontakt.

    By the way, if you want to change the attack of a patch, you'll have to load it into GSEdit and then save the file for about several minutes if that's a big file. These things simply interupts the creative flow. When I have it. [[;)]]

    The "use alternative sample on repeated notes" function is built-in after Kontakt 1.5. Along with the release trigger function and stuff, there's no need for any external MIDI plug-ins that require you to install virtual MIDI drivers in your system anymore.

    Give me the Kontakt version, and I'll give you a filled order form.

    p.s.: Christian@VLS, thanks for answering my questions earlier. [:D]
  • M
    M
    "I haven't run Giga for ages. Reason: it's an isolated island."
    Agreed, it's been isolated (but working VERY well all this time) for some time now, but it's changing with the upcoming VST adapter from Fx-Max. Next week we'll see what Giga 3 adds to the equation. Interesting days ahead!

    "The "use alternative sample on repeated notes" function is built-in after Kontakt 1.5. Along with the release trigger function and stuff, there's no need for any external MIDI plug-ins that require you to install virtual MIDI drivers in your system anymore."
    If you think altering repeated notes is all the Performance Tool does, think again! [[;)]] The legato functionality is one example of functionality that is not possible to do natively in any sampler to this date.

    /Mattias
  • N
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    As far as i'm concerned both Gigastudio & EXS24 come with some compromises. The great thing about EXS24 (I don't use Giga) is the Logic integration, and it is very easy to use. I'll bet there's an update for EXS24 in the pipeline, too - Emagic have given us lots of nice suprises in the past couple of years.

    But the old hardware samplers from Roland & E-mu (I never used Akai) still have the best programming features in many respects. For instance, you cant program a crossfade between two groups in EXS24 as you can with Roland S-series . You can't fade individual groups with a controller (only one crossfade routing). And Emu's modulation routing possibilities have never been surpassed!

    Would you want to be a sample developer in today's market? It's as hard for them to choose a platform as it is for us musicians. I think VSL have made good choices so far - if they do extend beyond Giga and EXS24, I would bet on Kontakt. NI have their plug-in development much better in hand than Steinberg, IMHO. Steinberg have some great products (The Grand, VG)but have been dissappointingly slow in their support for them.

    Don't forget the guys at Translator and CDXtract, either - theyre improving their programmes all the time. Maybe cross-platform issues can be better tackled using their tools.

    Hope this gives food for thought. And let's keep the VSL forum useful and supportive of each other! [[;)]]

    Nigel
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    I too am also considering getting VSL to run under Halion. To be honest, I don't really care what sampler I use, since all I am really interested in is using a VSTi instrument and am not interested in programming it at all. Ideally, the Performance Tool and the samples would run under a VSIi so I didn't have to be bothered with routing out to Performance Tool. However, I imagine this will come along eventually and can easily live with it meanwhile. My idea is to have virtual orchestral instrument players that give me a nice abstract interface where I just tell them the style to play and off they go... longer term, I want to see us moving away from particular libraries and bundling library with sampler players, much like QL does.
    I too am an ex-Giga user, who gave up using Giga several years ago, having since ported my garritan, dan dean et al libraries to Halion with virtually no problems at all now, being able to run them in a lovely VST environment and with more reliability and polyphony that Giga.
    I don't like the idea of having to convert from giga to halion, especially since I am planning on shelling out 3k+ for the pro edition, but I will do, unless Tascam can prove me wrong with Giga3, if it comes out quickly and if it is fully VST compatible AND is more efficient. But, to be honest, any company which disappears for two years without saying a thing about what it is doing and without posting any updates to their current software... well, I don't have a lot of faith in them. I'm willing to be proved otherwise.
    Any tool that is not VSTi these days, I am not interested. That is just me and the way I work.
    So, in conclusions, VSL, listen to your potential Halion customers... not everyone wants to stick with giga... you have a load of customers using Halion.
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    @Another User said:

    ported my garritan, dan dean et al libraries to Halion with virtually no problems at all


    paynterr, would you please say how you did the conversion? Halion-internal, or did you use ChickenSystems Translator/CDXtract, and if so, on PC or Mac?

    Were there any limitations (ie, did you have to tweak things by hand afterwards)?

    Thanks very much

    Nigel
  • S
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    @Another User said:

    So, in conclusions, VSL, listen to your potential Halion customers... not everyone wants to stick with giga... you have a load of customers using Halion.


    paynterr...

    Wholeheartedly agree...VSTi is it!

    -spiro
  • A
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    Mattias:

    Thanks for the .

    Can you tell me more about the VSL Legato function? In Garritan Orchestral Strings, the Legato function is to mute the previous note's tail when the next note is triggered, which can be done easily by limiting the polyphony of the Kontakt channel. And for the down/up bow switch, I do it manually. Can you please let me know what I'm missing? I'm sure there're stlil some things.

    As for Giga3, well, is it really coming! Yet I've been waiting for it for like two years. Sometimes it's just too late when one company has lost their customers for too long......

    I spent a lot of time setting up a system to run GigaStudio 160 with, and it still crashed sometimes. When I switched to Kontakt it was just like that. Haven't crashed except when I forgot to activate the "old host behavior" when switching to Nuendo. I hope all the Giga3 users won't have to go through all that "phase" again......
  • M
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    "Can you tell me more about the VSL Legato function?"

    I'm sure there's a description somewhere here on the forum but... Basically you have two types of samples, starting samples and "transition" samples. The starting notes are as you'd suspect a sustain note including the attack in the beginning. The "transition" samples starts with the transition from one start note to another target note and ends with a sustain note on the target note.

    What the VSL team did was to sample all starting notes chromatically, sample all transitions from every starting note to every target notes within an octave from the target note! That is, for every starting note you end up with 26 transition samples (or is it 24 or 25...?). Take this, multiply with the number of notes in an instruments entire range, repeat the procedure in multiple velocity levels and you get the picture on the number of samples required not to mention the mapping work...

    What the Performance tool does when you're playing a legato instrument is to detect if you're playing legato and between which notes. Based on what it detects it alter the midi data so that the corresponding start sample or transition sample is played. The beauty is that the tool does this on the fly!

    Did that do for a brief description...?


    "As for Giga3, well, is it really coming!"
    It's supposed to be announced tomorrow so...

    /Mattias
  • A
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    I'm so sorry! I found the pdf document about the VSL Legato Tool in the VSL Demo Cube...... I should've looked for it first instead of just popping up the question......

    Again, I'm very sorry, and very very grateful too. [:O]ops:

    I'm not sure if it can be done manually (I'm not a "have-to-perform-it-in-realtime" person). Later this week I'll try importing the VS-8_mV-perf-leg-f-demo.gig (the demo instrument in the demo cube) into Kontakt and see if I can extract the slide part as an independent instrument.
  • P
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    After a brief flirtation with chicken sys translator, which didn't work for me, I got my money back and have ended up using the native Halion2 giga import, which is by far and away the best import I have come across.
    My gig libraries work beautifully under Halion2 and I get great polyphony...
    Make sure you have downloaded the very latest Halion version from Steinberg, since there were a succession of quick releases late last year, all of which added tweaks to the Giga import.
    The only downside is that you have to re-import your libs to take advantage... but that is just a case of going away and making a cup of coffee... ok then... a POT of coffee [:)]