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  4. Just saw Peter Pan - score by J.N Howard- WOW!!!!

  • Just saw Peter Pan - score by J.N Howard- WOW!!!!

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    Just saw the movie, which was ordinary, but the score was SO well written -

    Beautiful use of flowing motifs and well used themes that interleaved perfectly -

    When anyone else has seen it, let me know what you think!!!

    David T
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    JNH is one of my favorites (Snow Fallin upon Cedar, Signs, Dinosaur, etc.)

    How does this score compare to John Williams' "hook" film (similar subject matter)?

    Rob
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    Did he do "Sixth Sense?" I've also noticed his scores are really good. But he shares the curse of other film composers today - the movies one has to score besides Shyamalin or Jackson films.

    Like Peter Pan... (gag.)
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    Yes he did score Sixth Sense... check out the review of perterpan here www.filmtracks.com

    It compares it to JW's hook
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    Check out his Treasure Planet, Dinosour, Atlantis, Devil's Advocate, etc.
    incredibly effective and well recorded scores!
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    Although I haven't seen the movie I do have listened to the score... it sounds very beautiful, full of orchestral colours, though sometimes a bit "clichés"... I think JNH has shown over the years that he can handle any project, but if I had to compare it with Williams', I'd said that orchestrally and thematically the latest is quite superior... In a recent review I read that JNH usually relies on trying things on his samplers then develop everything, and that only on a few scores he has fully used his contrapunctual skills and wrote everything with pencil and on a table rather than using samples, which is exactly the opposite that John Williams do... this must be the reason why Williams handles orchestral might so well, after so many pencil-written scores... I have listened to his Hook 3 cd complete score and there's an incredible work in it, the themes evolve smoothly, there's a whole universe created for this movie, to me this score describes almost perfectly neverland without having to watch the image... JNH is impressive but it's more an effects score than the whole thing... I'm still sort of missing something in it...

    After watching the trailer JNH's score must work very well in the movie, but to me Williams' score is more a study reference than Howard's (and I love both composers).... but hey, that's only my amateur opinion [;)]

    Regards,

    Iván.
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    @Another User said:

    I have listened to his Hook 3 cd complete score


    [[:|]] ...Iván, please, where did you find it? ...3 cd complete score... [8-)] in Italy, I never seen it!

    Rino
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    Hi, Rino, I don't have it, as I've only heard it in a friend's house... apparently he got it from a peer 2 peer program, if you are really interested I could ask him which one is it, the sound was not pretty good though, quite a lot of analogue noise in it in some cues, but the highlight was probably "the Face of Pan suite", I listened to it 5 times in a row... really emotive...Here in Spain there are some dedicated "rare soundtrack stores", and there was a "hook extended" (2 cds), a bit too expensive, and as the sound was still a bit low-fi I haven't bought it... I don't know if they are selling to europe, but I could also ask if you are interested... Just PM me or email me if you want.

    Regards, Ivan.
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    Hi Ivan...
    ...oh I see... never mind, it was just a bit of curiosity... I've thought it was an official (hi-fi...!) CD... I've got the original soundtrack anyway...

    ...oh... about JNH... I like his "Signs" very much!

    ...and about JW... he's great! How to forget "Star wars" "Indiana Jones" "Jurassic Park" "Schindler's List"? (mhmm... also, I think [:O]ops:, he likes very much... Prokofiev!!!)

    "Peter Pan"? ...I think we'll see it next year... here!

    Ciao a tutti!
    Rino
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    hehe, to me, JNH's best are Dinosaur, the Fugitive and the 6Th sense though some cues from other scores like Signs (wow what a final climax!!!) or Alive! are astonishing

    As for Williams, his best to me are Empire Strikes Back, E.T. and Schindler's list, in fact those three scores are among the main reasons I am engaged to filmscoring [;)]

    Ci vediamo!
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    JNH is certainly a talented fellow. However, there are some glaring weaknesses in his part writing that you would never find in any film composers from the beginning of Hollywood movies up through todays "schooled" composers such as John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith (and many younger composers such as David Newman.) This speaks to the phenomenon of Rock and Roll musician/producer as film composer. Some make the transition better than other's. Danny Elfman is probably the most successful musically (whatever his method) as far as good solid compositional technique. JNH (a gifted keyboadist arranger) often times demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of fundamental compositional principles and pulls me right out of the film experience because it shocks my system in a way. On the other hand he can do very well if the writing is more keyboard like in nature and still translates well into the orchestra as in "Dave" which I think is one of his best scores.

    I make this point for the sole reason that younger composers should be able to hear these things and not be too enamored with a big beautiful orchestral sound (which is only an expansion of a musical idea.) One must be able to detect the essence of the musical thought regardless of it's presentation.

    Dave Connor
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    Sad that you are so well versed in the principals of orchestration, that it can pull you right out of a movie.

    Could you give me an example of this... a track of JNH that is so bad that it does this?

    Anyway, a core I really like from him is Unbreakable... and for pure action I recommend Waterworld...
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    @Another User said:



    "I make this point for the sole reason that younger composers should be able to hear these things and not be too enamored with a big beautiful orchestral sound (which is only an expansion of a musical idea.) One must be able to detect the essence of the musical thought regardless of it's presentation."

    Dave Connor



    I also agree with that... I think that is the reason too, why Zimmer reached so many people (at least in the beggining) with very simple things... (but boy, isn't it also incredible when there is a good orchestration behind [[;)]] ?


    Regards,

    Iván
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    Does it really matter how good at the principals of orchetration they are? I mean.. it apeartently matters to you guys, in terms of listening experience... but as a filmcomposer it matters not. They are highly successful - and more so than any of us will likely be - even combined.

    The music they do works, and they have a keen sense for themes, and how to really boost the emotion the filmmaker wants to display...
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    @Christian Marcussen said:

    Does it really matter how good at the principals of orchetration ...


    Yeah, I think it does.

    It matters to most of us because of our particular interest. But I think it also matters to a film going audience with no formal training in music in a sublimanal way.

    For example, one of the best 'sections' of music in a film for me, comes towards the end of Shawshank Redemption; the bit where Morgan Freemans character is going up to the stone wall under the tree to find the tin box etc. Thomas Newman's score and orchestration combined is absolutely brilliant IMHO. Completely defines the scene without distracting you from whats happening on the screen.

    I may be wrong, but had that piece of music been badly scored, it may not have worked so well as it does and been noticed negatively by an audience not versed in the principals of orchestration, even if they couldn't explain why.

    Yes, the music they do works and they're probably highly sucessful because a lot of them have good orchestration and thematic techniques.

    Better than any of us - even combined?

    You've just gone to the top of the popularity poll.

    Congrats [[;)]]
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    @Another User said:

    They are highly successful - and more so than any of us will likely be - even combined.


    If you must hate me, then atleast quote me correctly... I NEVER said they were better... I chose my words very carefully...
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    My appologies Christian [:D]
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    @Christian Marcussen said:

    Does it really matter how good at the principals of orchetration they are? I mean.. it apeartently matters to you guys, in terms of listening experience... but as a filmcomposer it matters not. They are highly successful - and more so than any of us will likely be - even combined. The music they do works, and they have a keen sense for themes, and how to really boost the emotion the filmmaker wants to display...


    Christian,

    By "highly successful" you must be referring to working on many big films that are themselves commercially successful. I am talking about how well they are succeeding musically not commercially.

    Here's a perspective that may clarify things. I have the recording of Alexander North's score to Stanly Kubrick's 2001 - which was thrown out by the director. In this case you could argue that the score was a total failure. Artistically it failed to please Mr. Kubrick and commercially it failed to even make it into even one theatre. Musically (in every way) it is a stunning success. I would rather listen to this score than dozens of wildly successful present day film scores.

    My point is, that the day of the majority of film scores being musically sound has passed. What's worse than that, is if up and coming film composer's don't even recognize it due to there own lack of training.

    Mr. Elfman (who no doubt benefited hugely from Steve Bartek's brilliance) as I stated, "whatever his methods" (relying upon a good orchestrator to help with fundamentals and more) does not let his scores out with musical weakness right and left. That's probably a good idea if someone is lacking in musical training.

    Finally, I am trying to stir the pot here a little so that younger guys - I'm 48 - will perhaps consider the merits and ramifications of my point. In Mr. Newton Howard's favor he is getting by pretty OK on talent alone and has improved in counterpoint and so on. He can aslo be extremly effective on every level (The Sixth Sense.) Honestly though, he should know that parrallel octaves are monumentally unsound unless used with high intention: (Beethoven's 9th opening figure)

    One should consider the legacy being left by such masterful musicians as Jerry Goldsmith and Ennio Morricone. I want to follow in their footsteps.

    Very fun all this,

    Dave Connor
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    Finally, I am trying to stir the pot here a little so that younger guys - I'm 48 - Dave Connor[/quote]...

    I know he won't mind me saying this, but he's actually 48 tomorrow. Happy Birthday in advance if I don't catch you later.

    Paul
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    Dave,

    How does one get ones' hands on North's original 2001 score? This isn't something commercially available on CD is it?

    Fred Story
    Concentrix Music and Sound Design
    www.concentrixmusic.com