Sure. Actually going to Maui in May.

You OS9 guys worry too much. It takes some work but you just set it all up with Channel Splitters and MIDI Patchbay Virtual Ports. Once Logic is in loop play it is ENGAGED and thus teh MIDI chanels incoming trigger the appropriate sounds.

This is truly an awesome discovery.

Testing testing testing.

Evan Evans

There are details in fact in this forum somewhere. You do something in the environment where you set Logic in LoopPlay, and use ChannelSplitters, and cable tehm togehr using InterApplicationCommunication (IAC) ports, or using MIDI Patchbay. There would be as much latency as there woul dbe from real live playing, whichis the same as it is when you play a track. So no latency.No, but I think that would work fine. i actualyl thoght of that too. just trying to solve problems first.

I have a MIDI feedback loop in Logic and I can't figure out why. Not related to multiple Logics. because I messed around with teh environment and didn't know what I was doing.

Guys I have been trying to put this together and having a hell of a time. Nick, somebody,

Can you help explain to me hot to setup Logic like this:

I want to have the MAIN Logic be able to play some MIDI Devices. I would select them in the track instrument menu. I want to set the MIDI Output port of this MIDI Device somewhere. I cannot figure out where you can select your MIDI output ports. Maybe I ama little old school, but if I have asynth inmy rig, how the heck do I use it? Where in teh environment do you setup that synth? This would be the Master Logic.

Then in Logic, how do you set it up so that at least one Audio Instrument will play from an external input. AND, that the keyboard input is disabled for it. This would be the Slave Logic.

So far I have succeeded in wreacking havoc on my comptuer and now I need to stop expermineting and ask you guys how the f*** I do this. Anyobody with Environment sklls please come forward! Your help is greatly appreciated.

Finally, anybody know how to use ReWire to send MIDI to another APP? An dif so, how do you get Logic to recieve info from ReWire and route it to a Audio Instrument?

Thanks all. I'm done with this for the night. Almost blew my speakers witha feedback loop playing back teh since wave in EXS in Logic #2. Try 10,000 notes stacked up on top of each other. I jumped down and shut offf my amp.

Yikes.

Evan Evans

Most of that I already knew. But there must be a bug becuase I was getting some infinite MIDI loops with IAC. Crashed my kernel 5 times. hard reboot.

How do you get an IAC Port to come IN to the other Logic and split out to the EXSs? (I know how to split out)

Evan Evans

evan

while i still hold that anything beyond about 100 instruments won't be worth it since at that point most of the heads of the instruments won't be kept in RAM but rather swapped to disk (therefore destroying real time playback performance), i do wish you the best.

so the best advice i can give about this environment you want to set-up is listen to christian and post here:

http://community.sonikma...agic/ultimatebb.php?ubb="forum;f=16" "="" target="_blank" title="http://community.sonikmatter.com/emagic/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=16">http://community.sonikmatter.com/emagic/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=16">http://community.sonikmatter.com/emagic/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=16

and hope for a response/some help from Oink. he knows environments.

also, afaik, logic can't be made a rewire slave, only a master.

and for those of you who are just tuning in here based on the 300+ instrument figure - i wouldn't hold your breath. i'm sure evan can load them up - but playing them? not likely. at least in my experience with RAM requirements/instrument for fluid (non pop, click, audio error) playback.

bear in mind, once the system dumps the sample heads from RAM to disk, streaming performance is destroyed. to load up 350 instruments is possible by opening multiple logics - each instance being granted 3.5 GB of Virtual Memory space by OS X allows this total to be achieved.

but Virtual Memory must reside in actual memory for streaming to work effectively. if that Virtual Memory space isn't in RAM but rather on disk (as even on a G5/8GB it would be with more than 2 logics open), then when you play a note the system will have to retrieve the Head of the note from the Virtual Memory space on disk and then the Tail of the note from the original sample disk - not what streaming was meant to do at all.

look, you can get extra storage space in a car by removing the engine, but if the car won't run, so what?

for those of you coming from OS 9, with a G5/OS X/8GB RAM you can expect to load double the amount of instruments because logic can use twice as much actual RAM space for Virtual Memory as on a G4. perhaps, if evan can work some magic and get a 2nd logic running seamlessly for VSL, you'll be able to load and play 4x as many (exactly how much more RAM you can put in a G5 than a G4).

but that will be the limit. being seduced by numbers beyond that is only an affair of the heart. evan knows this, but he is currently busy turning the world inside out. and god bless him for it.

hope this helps and best of luck.

On Environments: I have found that the Logic Instruments i.e. EXS do not respond to Midi in the same way that a normal Midi track would. Stange as it seems-It seems to be restricted to the Physical Input ( 64 tracks) and 1 that is ONE Interapplication Midi Bus (16 tracks) in the Apple AU Midi Spec. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I am, with Evan also looking for a route around this limitation.

get the whole massive beast running, open the Terminal, and type "top".
At the end of the first section of info, you should see "0(0) pageouts"
If you keep working, and that keeps saying "0(0)", then you're past the
virtual memory problem...

just an idea -- being thorough.

jbm

EXS doesn't show separate PID in TOP - it is part of logic.

please remember, the real world limit here is going to be Real Memory (RAM), not Virtual memory (which is how evan is loading up so many instruments). i have one song with 50 VSL instruments loaded at the minimum EXS RAM requirement settings: fast, less.

the Virtual Memory total for logic is around 3.34 GB, while the Real Memory total is just over 3 GB. with 4 GB of RAM in my machine, ALL of the sample heads in Virtual Memory are located in Real Memory (real RAM).

when i remove 2 GB of RAM from my machine and open the same song, it still takes 3.34 GB of Virtual Memory - but the Real Memory setting drops to around 314 MB. the majority, or all, of the sample heads have been swapped to disk.

the difference in real world performance of this one song with different amounts of RAM is huge. with 4 GB i can simultaneously playback all 50 instruments with performances on them. with 2 GB of RAM, i can playback 6 simultaneous instruments with performances before i get a core audio overload due to files being on the disk instead of in RAM.

the point being - you can do what evan is doing and load as many sample heads into the Virtual Memory of as many songs as you like - i don't see any reason you need to stop at 300 instruments, why not open 10 logics and make it 600? - but if those sample heads are not stored in RAM, you won't be able to stream them worth a damn.

clearly, everybody wants the power. and i'm not trying to rain on evan's parade here - his enthusiasm has gotten us far and even a second instance of logic would be a big step forward.

but he has become blinded by desire, here. no way is anyone going to be able to load and play 300+ VSL instruments with only 8 GB RAM. load them, sure. you probably can now, even on a G4. dynamic memory will alllow that.

play them - not for long. one or two - yes. 20? no way. once VM drops samples from RAM to disk, 20 instruments is not happening. for actual streaming, swapping to disk must be avoided.

evan isn't avoiding it.

i know it isn't what anyone wants to read, but does that help?

Sorry to disagree. On even my Dual G4, I had 16K+ samples loaded, went way beyond my physcial RAM of 2GB, and had a total 180 Instruments loaded into 40 EXS Instances. Worked like a charm.

You forget that those stream buffers are themselves intellgiently buffered to disk in portion by the OS. OSX is a powerful thing. You ought to go back and read my post about how OSX has no memory limitations.

And now especially by launching multiple Logics you are able to access more than 4GB if you have say a 8GB, 12GB, or 16GB G5.

The G5 architecture is such that the internal 2nd hard disk is nearly as fast as a RAM call itself.

Evan Evans

Again, NO.

That would be the case if you were playing back ALL those instruments. But OSX will self prioritze the resources it needs. So if you play back your 30 to 100 track piece which accesses 50 to 150 EXS instruments OUT OF 384 loaded, then after about 5 playbacks you will have all the resources aligned (ie: the necesary instrument's buffers will be mostly in RAM), and it will play without POP or CLICK.

This will work fine for orchestral writing. It's not necessary to access all 384 instrumetns at teh same time. That would require 384 tracks which I have never writtern. HAVE YOU? (other than a test)

Thanks for the link. And the devil's advocate action. it's necessary.



Evan Evans