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  • Legato Tool - Strings

    Hi all,

    I have been so pleased with the legato tool and strings I haven't really spent time tweaking the 'release time' and 'legata threshold' functions. As I see it, increasing these times seems to help in 'slower' legato passages.

    Can anyone shed some light on these two functions and how they get the best results dependent on the material? When they are 'increased' should they always be around the same number? Etc.

    Many thanks in advance.

    Rob

  • Sorry that is "legatO" tool (that's what I get for typing before 6 AM.) Thanks in advance for your experience with the performance legato tool.

    Rob

  • Hi Rob!

    As you are always starting with a new starting note for every legato passage, the Legato Threshold shows the time that can pass before playing the next legato note in your passage. The higher you set it, the less you have to play "real" legato on you keyboard (so there may be gaps between your notes, you will still hear legato including the transition sound).
    Once the set time has passed, you wil be automatically provided with a new starting note (no transition).

    The Release Time delays the Note-off event of your last played note. This way it covers possible gaps between your note and makes sure, that the blending between the notes works perfectly fine.

    Basic Rule: These two sliders should have roughly the same settings. You can experiment with them and adjust them to your playing style.

    Best wishes, Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
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    @Paul said:

    Hi Rob!

    As you are always starting with a new starting note for every legato passage, the Legato Threshold shows the time that can pass before playing the next legato note in your passage. The higher you set it, the less you have to play "real" legato on you keyboard (so there may be gaps between your notes, you will still hear legato including the transition sound).
    Once the set time has passed, you wil be automatically provided with a new starting note (no transition).

    The Release Time delays the Note-off event of your last played note. This way it covers possible gaps between your note and makes sure, that the blending between the notes works perfectly fine.

    Basic Rule: These two sliders should have roughly the same settings. You can experiment with them and adjust them to your playing style.

    Best wishes, Paul


    Great explanation Paul - thanks for taking the time to do so.

    Rob

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    @Paul said:

    Hi Rob!

    As you are always starting with a new starting note for every legato passage, the Legato Threshold shows the time that can pass before playing the next legato note in your passage. The higher you set it, the less you have to play "real" legato on you keyboard (so there may be gaps between your notes, you will still hear legato including the transition sound).
    Once the set time has passed, you wil be automatically provided with a new starting note (no transition).

    The Release Time delays the Note-off event of your last played note. This way it covers possible gaps between your note and makes sure, that the blending between the notes works perfectly fine.

    Basic Rule: These two sliders should have roughly the same settings. You can experiment with them and adjust them to your playing style.

    Best wishes, Paul



    Paul, I'm new to VSL and am confused by this whole "Starting Note" thing. If I play an arpeggiated C Major chord on violins......C E G C G E C.....and wish to have this "legato".....why is the first "C".....considered a "starting note" and somehow different? They are all tied together equally if I'm truly playing this legato. Confused....thanks for any help...

    Tom

  • Hi Tom,

    a starting note does not need a transition from anywhere. It starts with the natural attack of the tone. As you go on playing your legato line, there´s always different transition sounds inbetween your played notes, depending on which tone you come from.

    No reason for confusion, the great thing with the Legato Mode is, that you just have to play and the Performance Tool does everything for you...

    Best wishes, Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • I've been ignoring the release time setting. I wonder if it would help in fast legato passages. It's difficult to get fast runs with the legato patches. I'd like to see separate fast legato performance patches, or maybe spiccato perf patches.

    Anthony Lombardi
    www.anthonylombardi.com

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    @tonylombardi said:

    I've been ignoring the release time setting. I wonder if it would help in fast legato passages. It's difficult to get fast runs with the legato patches. I'd like to see separate fast legato performance patches, or maybe spiccato perf patches.
    The spiccato solo violin perf patch sounds great, got a chance to play briefly with it recently. Hope they do one eventually for the full strings section. [:)] And yes, you're right. I'd like to see some grace patches too, for the strings, to do fast runs.

  • by the way, is it possibe to change the legato toll values for release via midi, e.g. via contoll change. i think it would be usefull, would't it?

  • For some reason my Legato always sounds rather choppy; I have no idea what I am doing wrong, unless it is meant to sound like this. The only way I seem to get a legato sound is if I layer it with a sus sound from the Cube. Is there a better way?

    DG

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    @DG said:

    For some reason my Legato always sounds rather choppy; I have no idea what I am doing wrong, unless it is meant to sound like this. The only way I seem to get a legato sound is if I layer it with a sus sound from the Cube. Is there a better way?

    DG


    Yes, me too. The other instruments, like clarinet, play a beautiful legato, but when I go to V14 it sounds like I might as well not have the PTool. Don't know what I'm doing wrong, and I've messed with the leg threshold and release and it just makes things worse....(for me)...

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    @Another User said:


    Yes, me too. The other instruments, like clarinet, play a beautiful legato, but when I go to V14 it sounds like I might as well not have the PTool. Don't know what I'm doing wrong, and I've messed with the leg threshold and release and it just makes things worse....(for me)...

    Hi Tom, like yourself I'm new to the VSL malarkey and have yet to figure out what my best working pattern is. In the past I could knock up demos very quickly, but with so many added complications, I think that it will take me longer in the future, even when I have learned what I need to. However, I'm hoping that the standard of demos will improve somewhat.
    I think that the leg threshhold is really only designed to compensate for bad (or less accomplished) playing; I don't think that it will "improve" the legato [:(]

    DG

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    @tom@aerovons.com said:

    Yes, me too. The other instruments, like clarinet, play a beautiful legato, but when I go to V14 it sounds like I might as well not have the PTool. Don't know what I'm doing wrong, and I've messed with the leg threshold and release and it just makes things worse....(for me)...
    Do you use Opus 1? Or the Pro edition? For some reason the release times of the individual samples were changed between the first edition and the Opus release. The first edition samples had a release time of 0.25s which made real-time playing a breeze, Opus is apparently using a release time of 0.05s if I remember correctly. It certainly harms the legato.

    You will need to change this with the giga editor. I don't know if my comments hold true for the pro edition.

  • "VSL malarkey..."

    For non-native English speakers: Malarkey = bullshit.

    "I hope the standard of demos will improve"

    Sniff, sniff... (accompanied by nose in the air.)

    thanks! I appreciate it.

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    @William said:

    "VSL malarkey..."

    For non-native English speakers: Malarkey = bullshit.

    "I hope the standard of demos will improve"

    Sniff, sniff... (accompanied by nose in the air.)

    thanks! I appreciate it.


    Not quite an acurate translation of Malarkey, I'm afraid WIlliam. It is not "b***shit", but more unwanted hassle. I also seem to remember reading a previous post of yours where you lamented the fact that we all have to become pseudo computer geeks rather than composers...!

    As for the sniffing, I assume that you must be suffering from hayfever, or some such allergy; maybe the reason your nose is in the air is to stop it dripping onto the keyboard.

    Regarding my comment about the standard of my demos, I think that as I've heard them and you haven't, I'm entitled to disparage them [:(]

    DG

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    @DG said:

    Regarding my comment about the standard of my demos, I think that as I've heard them and you haven't, I'm entitled to disparage them DG


    In the key of malar! I think malarkey means confusion. When you said 'standard of demos', I assume you meant the standard of your demos. Why don't you post one of your demos and then see if anyone here can come up with where the malarkey is occuring with your performance tool problems? Is the performance tool really for bad or less accomplished keyboard players? If thats true, I'm concerned, because I'm rejigging my system to incorporate this function, and if that's all its for, then theres no point in me getting it, because I'm a fantastic keyboard player. Of course, not all musicians on this forum are keyboard players, thankfully. [:P]

    Rob Elliot started this post, and having heard a few things by Rob over time, I went to his website and downloaded 5 or 6 pieces. I assume Rob is a keyboard player and has used the perf tool on these pieces. They are excellent pieces and if that was helped along with the performance tool, then I could definately use it. I understand there will be a DVD or Video coming out as a learning curve for the Performance Tool. Any news on that?

    With regard to Bill and computer nerds. That post was in essence to segregate the forum and help with having to wade through tons of stuff that eventually went off-topic, Hence the Orchestration area.

    Honestly DG! Snot on the keyboard? Is that the best you can come up with? I've smashed more keyboards than you've had hot dinners. Mini Moogs, pianos, harpsichords, Hammond organs; you name it. Set fire to a Hammond once actually, but that was a smoking accident, so it does'nt count. That turned out to be malarkey. [:O]ops:

    All the best

    PR

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    @PaulR said:


    Why don't you post one of your demos and then see if anyone here can come up with where the malarkey is occuring with your performance tool problems? PR


    I may well post a demo when I've actually managed to come up with something that sounds half decent... [:(]

    DG

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    @DG said:

    I may well post a demo when I've actually managed to come up with something that sounds half decent... [:(] DG


    That defeats the object. If it's half decent, then you don't need any help with the preformance tool at that stage, do you? Stick something up that shows up the problem. Nobody is going to worry if it sounds crap. Forget about pride. I don't have the perf tool yet, as I mentioned, so I, and many others would like to get to the bottom of this.

  • Standard of YOUR demos? - I had no idea you were referring to yours.

  • i noticed that a lot of my notes weren't legato and then realized that it seemed to be when the starting note finished *after* the beginning of the next note (i.e. a few ticks of polyphony.) When I told cubase to clip the notes against each other so that they no longer overlapped, it got a lot better. Also, when i forced a few ticks of pause between the notes (in Cubase SX, you can set a legato offset) it improved even more. I'm not sure about the mechanics of perfectly flush midi events or overlapping midi events.

    Anyway, give that a shot. I was skeptical at first, too, but soon thereafter, I was floored. Some of transitions are like glass. I'll try and post something as soon as I figure out how to record out of gigastudio.

    -denny-