Does anyone know a good way to get that classic golden age string sound from samples or real players or a mix? I am doing a film that calls for that sound (as both source music and then underscore).
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1920's string sound
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That would be the hot impassioned string sound.
Use of mid and upper ranged orchestration, chordal, octave based, no open voicings. Strings doubling with double-reeds. Timpani and piatti and cymbal swells. Woodblock at times. Triangle. Trumpets with Trombones. Horns with violas and never joined in with trumpets and trombones. Tuba.
Emphasis on melody and counterpoint. Variation of melody. Rarely a non-melodic bar. The use of musical techniques that were tried and true to create contrast, not orchestration so much. For example, moving from legato espressivo to staccato/spiccato.
The absolute fundamental key to the Golden Age sound is the use of trumpets in cardboard or fiberglass conical mutes, as well as unmuted, and using the horns only for melody or as texture joined with strings and/or woodwinds, BUT NOT the other brass.
Second most important is the use of Violas to double the 2nd violins, either in a 3rd octave, or in a tightly locked upper string harmonization that is not open.
Evan Evans
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If you cut the highs and even cut the lows a little that should help. That is make the sound sort of dull. The frequency response in those days wasn't nearly as wide and shimmering as it is today. Also use only room sounds with your reverb with very little (short) tail and make sure the tail is not wet at all. Any sort of close miked detailed sound should be avoided. If you're recording a string section you can mike them close but you have to set them back somehow.
As far as writing, you should listen to some examples from the era because the style is very important as well. I refer to chord voicing and or polyphony. I think it was very common then to divide the 1st and 2nd vlns into 7th chord type voicings. Also very common would be 1st vlns unison or octaves as melody above chordal textures in other strings. Also a very straght forward classical type of string writing would be used as well as Wagnerian sounding harmonies with sixth chords and 6/4 chords including the major 7th (the latter common in films music from the early 30's.) I know because I've replaced music from big Hollywood films of that era (for UCLA film preservation.) It's best to have an example to match. Sound films didn't begin untill 1927 so your best bet is films from the early thirties.
Dave Connor
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That's an interesting question and great responses from Evan and Dave. On the sound Dave is right - it should be very dry. And the orchestra should sound small - the studio orchestras were tiny compared to today's mammoth romantic orchestras. In fact, if you used solo strings it might be just right, but mixed with just a few woodwinds and brass. You can also throw in a piano, which was often used to substitute for missing harmony.
One specific thing you could listen to for the style is what everybody at that time was imitating - Gilbert and Sullivan. One of the overtures to the operettas, like Pirates of Penzance or any of them. If you imitate that style you're right back in the 20s.
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Oh, I assumed he was talking about orchestration since he posted it in the orchestration forum. I do have some mixing tips, but I think Dave covered the lot of them.
Evan Evans
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Valuable notes here on the Golden Era sound. I will save those!
I will add one more pointer. Since they used smaller orchestras the bass section was usually only a couple guys. And since the microphones did not have very good frequency response the bass had to be boosted so they often double the 2 bass players with 2 Tubas. Anyway that's what they did on Max Steiner's King Kong 1933.
I don't have the Chamber strings but this could be useful for such project.
=m=a=r=c=
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Yes, Marc I was thinking that too - the Chamber Strings are EXACTLY what you need for this because they are the precise size of a studio orchestra of the time. One thing that you would always hear - in sharp distinction to today's scores - is a seemingly "symphonic" variety of instruments, but with very few players on each. For example about five violins, a couple violas and cellos, maybe only one bass, a piano, drumset with a lot of traps that could be handled by one guy, and then a flute, clarinet and oboe who might double on English Horn for an "exotic" variation.
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Saturation might help, yes.
For me, the most important aspect of an "old" sound is the fact that the amplifiers back than were much slower that the state-of-the-art gear we use today. Attacks and transients got smeard, giving the signal that "indirect" appearance that we perceive. To simulate this typical slow slew-rate is not easy once the record has the pristine modern sound. Tools like Waves' Trans-X or other envelope-following dynamic processors might be worth a try to achieve this goal.
Just a thought.
/Dietz
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
This depends on the platform I'm working on.
For VST, there is the "Magneto", which is capable of even rough effects in the newest version (comes with SX2 and Nuendo 2), or the VintigeWarmer from PSP - a very nice tool in any case.
For TDM, there is the Analog-Channel from McDSP, or even better, the Phoenix from CraneSong.
As a hardware-solution, there would be the great HEDD-192 from CraneSong (which does nice tube-emulation, too), or the MachineHead from SPL (which is not built any longer). - The "real thing" rules, nevertheless, so look around for a nice (old) Studer or Otari for best results! :-]
HTH,
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
I love this kind of stuff and would really like to hear the end product if possible.
A more radical solution would be doing an optical sound dub of your original audio. Of course it would be a little expensive, but to put it on optical film with a galvanometer would be a wonderful distortion - especially 16mm for an accompanying sea of optical noise.
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Yes, great thread. If you can, please post your results!
I might add the wow and flutter issues. The old machines were quite shaky in speed. So add some random varyspeed.
And, I agree, probably you wont be able to beat the results you can get with a real old machine, although an optical print might come out a *little* expensive [;)]
But if you use a reel to reel machine you can even mechanically influence your result. Scratch the magnetic surface and you´ll get some very beautiful breakups and distortions you probably won´t get with digital simulation.
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Why not run it lightly through a de-noise plug-in like Sonic Foudry's a couple times. if you did it right you would ruin the presence of the note attacks and add some mild cruddy artifacts. Then EQ out everything below 500hz and above 5Khz and you're done!!
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Didn't they use Strohviols a lot for solo parts in those days? It was a fiddle with a horn attached.
