itching to buy some fresh bartok

[see why what_]

Hey all,
any favorite bartok works and/or specific recorded performances you guys want to weigh in on? i'm un-naturaly attached to the string quartets so i need to expand my bartok library!
anything of his have an interesting approach to woodwinds?
i'm also going through a woodwinds phase. i noticed some really clear and forceful woodwind use in the copland ballets........ more than just solo voices and color, which is the rut i'm in.
any thoughts?
thanks
james

[evan evans]

That one, I forget the name, somethign like:

The Fantastic Mandarin

or something. It's great. Get the Salonen recording he's the best at Bartok.

Evan Evans

[gugliel]

"The Miraculous Mandarin". Also the Concerto for Orchestra has famous passages for duo woodwinds.

[DaveTubaKing]

@gugliel said:

"....Also the Concerto for Orchestra has famous passages for duo woodwinds.

and a famous tuba solo (at least amongst tubists) and a famous trombone raspberry which is actually impossible to play because it's a gliss across a major fifth when as everyone know trombones can only gliss a maximum of an augmented fourth - what was papa bartok thinking.

One of my favourite Bartoks is the sonata for two piano's and percussion brilliant piano and percussion writing.

DaveTubaKing

[nicks]

Sorry to hijack...

Dave TK,

What's your opinion of the VW Tuba Concerto. Personally I love it, but I'd be interested in the opinion of a Tuba player...

[:)]

[DaveTubaKing]

@nicks@aubergine.co.uk said:

Sorry to hijack...

Dave TK,

What's your opinion of the VW Tuba Concerto. Personally I love it, but I'd be interested in the opinion of a Tuba player...

[:)]

It’s great – it’s the sacred cow of tubists – VW is the biggest profile composer to write a concerto and we should be eternally grateful – which we are.

It’s late VW, in fact it may be his last piece. General opinion is that the orchestration is a bit heavy and it does require some sensitive handling to ensure the poor tuba is allowed to shine through. The second movement is genuinely beautiful music. Its short (14 minutes) but from an audience, programming perspective that’s ideal.

I’m only an amateur but I’ve been fortunate enough to play it twice once with the Royal Aircraft Establishment SO and once with a SO on the Isle of Wight – heady stuff!!!

There are however many alternatives, maybe not as good musically but far more challenging and exciting for tuba players. The VW is set for Grade 8 exams. More recently the next most high profile is probably the John Williams concerto – highly entertaining and again not too difficult and not a bit like Jabba the Hut.

My favourite however is the Derek Bourgeois. Only ever performed once (as far as I’m aware) by the late lamented John Fletcher (LSO 70s 80s think of the Previn shostakovitch recordings). Lasts for 50 minutes in four movements with very large orchestra more like a big shostakovitch symphony with tuba obligato. The composer will provide a CD of the radio broadcast if you send him a disc.

Other alternatives available on CD – Ole Schmidt (has the tuba going up to F5 top line of the treble clef), Edward Gregson (brass band), Joseph Horovitz (brass band).

Well you did ask! [:D]

[JohnA]

@DaveTubaKing said:

a famous trombone raspberry which is actually impossible to play because it's a gliss across a major fifth when as everyone know trombones can only gliss a maximum of an augmented fourth - what was papa bartok

I thought Trombones were capabale of a tritone gliss (7 positions = 6 semitones)
Isn't that right?

best,
John

[DaveTubaKing]

[/quote]I thought Trombones were capabale of a tritone gliss (7 positions = 6 semitones)
Isn't that right?

best,
John[/quote]

yes a tritone (augmented fourth) it's the same thing a trombone in Bb can gliss from Bb down to E natural.

DaveTubaKing

[JohnA]

[:O]ops: [:O]ops: [:O]ops:

[dpcon]

Bluebeards Castle (A short opera) is gorgeous.

Music for Strings Percussion and Celeste (Bernsteins recording) is one of the great compositions of the last century.

All three piano concerto's are wonderful.

You can't miss with this guy.

Dave Connor

[evan evans]

Bartok, Shostakovich, and Stravinsky are my favorites.

Evan Evans

[see why what_]

i always used to shy away from "The Miraculous Mandarin" because the title made it sound like a gilbert and sullivan operetta. i just heard it for the first time and i can say, without hesitation, that it is in no way mistakable for a gilbert and sullivan operetta..... [8-)]

......now sousa, on the other hand, was heart broken for not being seen as the american gilbert and sullivan.

pop quiz...who was the highest paid and most valued member of sousa's band?

i have no idea where i'm going with this....
james [:O]ops:

[dpcon]

@evanevans said:

Bartok, Shostakovich, and Stravinsky are my favorites.
Evan Evans

Understandably so: three unique aesthetics, with each one able to express their musical thought exactly as they imagined. All us composers know how difficult that is. It strikes me that these three share a certain intellectual prowess. Highly intelligent men. I don't site this to exalt intellectualism. It's just an obvious common denominator. Bach and Beethoven also serious brainpower along side sheer genius. Interesting.

Dave Connor

[Fiery Angel]

@evanevans said:

Bartok, Shostakovich, and Stravinsky are my favorites.

Evan Evans

You know that Bartok hated Shostakovich. He parodied his 5th Symphony in one of his works....think it was Concerto For Orchestra.

Prokofiev also poked fun at Stravinsky's Firebird in his Fiery Angel opera (and Third Symphony which had thematic material derived from his opera).

I guess there's always been a little professional competition between composers.

[William]

That's true, and Stravinsky was one of the worst. Though in general, the worst things ever said about composers that I have heard are by other composers. Never believe what a composer says.

I just lied.

(Apologies to Orson Welles)

[evan evans]

And Stravinsky did a "better" version of one of Ravel's works too! i forget which one, but it was great. Oh I think it was Bolero. So much more tasteful in the Stravinsky knock off!

Evan Evans

[Fiery Angel]

It's funny because "Miraculous Mandarin" is Bartok doing Stravinsky. Although I prefer Bartok to Stravinsky's works any day of the week. Save for The Firebird which is quite beautifully scored.

Of course, Mahler's music to me rules all. His adagios in particular are unbelievable. The final mvmnt of the 9th Symphony is so fluid, cohesive and wrought with emotion. Hard to believe someone could sustain that intensity for that length of time.

Das Leid Von Der Erde is my all time fave Mahler piece though, as an entire entity.

[andrespoll]

For Bartok
"music for strings percussion and celesta" a piece with a lot of dynamic range an dissonance, on the mellower side Piano concerto # 3, composed right before his death while being sick (Cancer) in bed.

[jorgen]

Prokofiev is most interesting, not as wild as Bartok but outstanding orchestrations and overall quality - try his first symphony. Or Piano concertos.

He was a killer pianist too.

best, Jorgen.

[DG]

@jorgen said:

Prokofiev is most interesting, not as wild as Bartok but outstanding orchestrations and overall quality - try his first symphony. Or Piano concertos.

He was a killer pianist too.

best, Jorgen.

I'd agree with the interesting bit, however one has to be careful about the orchestrations in later works as he tended to farm them out to his students (so I am told). I find them less rewarding than earlier works, but that may just be my prejudice talking.

DG