any plans to record a solo 2nd violin?

[fitch]

I just got solo strings.. to add to the ones i have in the pro ed...


call me an idiot, i know already [[:D]]


but i was expecting this lot to be a string quartet..



not to knock all the solo bass players out there, some of them are my best friends ..

but

i need a string quartet here.. not a lopsided ensemble


pleeeeeeeeeasseee...

any plans? [[:D]] and while you at it.. a 2nd violin section wouldn't go amiss either

[evan evans]

Yeah, it seems they just don't think it's important to classical writing to have a 2nd violin or 2nd violin section. Time and time again the 2nd violins have been left out. If each of our voices means anythign to VSL, than here is mine ... I SECOND that we need 2nd Violins, and 2nd Solo Violin. I'd say that 2nd Violins are more than 50% needed for string writing. Very common to use 2nd violins in unison and break off, etc.

Evan Evans

P.S. And Bb Trumpets too!

P.S.S. And you can call me an idiot anyday! Sticks and stones don't make a 2nd Violin section appear.

[mathis]

As far as two string sections playing unison: What I actually learned from your posts, Evan, is that layering two small sections won´t give the sound of a large section. So wouldn´t be a 30 players unison patch needed instead of a 2nd violin section?
What´s your take on this?

[evan evans]

It wasn't me necessarily who agreed it wouldn't work. Someone from VSL I think posed that possibility, and I just nodded my head since this is not a democratic forum. However, I personally would be very happy with making the current 1st Violins, the 2nds, and adding a 18 to 24 piece 1st section, at least for legato sustain work.

Evan Evans

[cm]

i have to contradict strictly that this forum wouldn't be based on democratic principles - this does not neccessarily mean we tolerate damages and injuries beyond a certain point
christian

[mathis]

Well, there´s no need for democracy here anyway. Or did I miss an election? Whom should we elect?
Evan, that was a curious technical question. I didn´t intend to pass you a chance to attack VSL.
It´s you who is the regular reminder of the changed overtone structure for varying section sizes. So I was curious what you want to do with a second string section with roughly the same size.

[evan evans]

@cm said:

i have to contradict strictly that this forum wouldn't be based on democratic principles - this does not neccessarily mean we tolerate damages and injuries beyond a certain point
christian

Oh. Capitalism.

Evan Evans

[DCB]

To return to the topic:

If we can have two flutes and two harps, then we can surely also have two solo violins. The logic is already there, so if VSL are consistent it should only be a matter of time.

Likewise, if we can have an additional larger horn ensemble, we can also have an additional and larger violin section. Like "Epic Horns" it would probably be a costly add-on product, but given the likely demand very worthwhile. "Epic Violins"?

In the meantime, let's strive to make full use of the great samples VSL already offer. As always the only reasonable "criticism" (if you can call it that) of VSL is that we still cannot get enough of it!

[DG]

@DCB said:

To return to the topic:


Likewise, if we can have an additional larger horn ensemble, we can also have an additional and larger violin section. Like "Epic Horns" it would probably be a costly add-on product, but given the likely demand very worthwhile. "Epic Violins"?

Although I don't want to seem ungrateful for all the new stuff, I'm still waiting for string harmonics [:(] I know that they are part of Chamber Strings, but I would like the same size section as the main library. I am quite expecting to pay for this, but it seems as if all the pleas have fallen on deaf ears.

DG

[mvanbebber]

I, too would really like to see a 2nd violin and 2nd violin ensemble. I also agree that my critisism with VSL is mostly that I can't get enough of them, but there are other things that are not part of this thread. One of my main criticisms/concerns is the apparent priority - based on the order of releases- that they place instrument samples in. I mean, we have: waterphone, lithophone, Wagner Tuba, Cimbasso, Bass Trumpet, etc, etc, etc - but we don't have: string harmonics (except natural harmonics in the very expensive chamber strings - which is not a full string section), 2nd violins, muted brass (except partially for pro edition users), Bb trumpets, euphonium, etc, etc, etc.
I just wonder if VSL has a 'master list' of samples to record, and if so, why is the list in the order it appears to be in? It seems very odd, for example, to have the bass trumpet MUCH higher on the priority list than a 2nd violin section and string harmonics. The only thing I can figure is that the VSL team gets really excited about certain instruments, and just does them for the fun of it - not business decision as much as a personal one.

[evan evans]

I couldn't agree with you more mvanbebber. It's been extremely frustrating to have to be witness to such odd behaviour. It's Bb Trumpets, Extended Violin Upper Range, Harmonics, Muted Brass, 2nd Violins. Holy cow are those so much more important than so many other samples that have been released. They aren't just wierd REQUESTS. These are STANDARDS! I will say that again:

STANDARDS

Pro Edition, and VSL in general is still lacking those professional elements IMNSHO.

Evan Evans

[Dietz]

Mr. Evans,

Congratulations, you made me write an answer to your provocative allegations again!

It's the same story as always: You just show that you haven't got the slightest idea of our work. You talk about "standards" as all these samples simply fell down from heaven somewhen, and we are just not nice enough to give them to you.

You won't understand it anyway, but there are so simple things like long-term schedules, personal availabilities of our preferred instrumentalists, and market research (read: demand), which influence the release of a certain instrument, as well as many other aspects you would understand even less, so I save my breath and come to the conclusio:

As much as we try to fit the needs of our customers, there will always be one or two that find their raison d'etre in badmouthing other people's achievements. - If your "not so humble" opinion is that our Library isn't professional enough for you, then please use more professional products for your work and leave us humble amateurs alone, and look for a more "democratic", anti-capitalist environment.

Thanks a lot.

/Dietz

[michi]

dietz, it's not worth the effort. some guys are lyvaughned and others are foycoffah [[;)]] (sorry for my bad english)

[DG]

@evanevans said:

I couldn't agree with you more mvanbebber. It's been extremely frustrating to have to be witness to such odd behaviour. It's Bb Trumpets, Extended Violin Upper Range, Harmonics, Muted Brass, 2nd Violins. Holy cow are those so much more important than so many other samples that have been released. They aren't just wierd REQUESTS. These are STANDARDS! I will say that again:

STANDARDS

Pro Edition, and VSL in general is still lacking those professional elements IMNSHO.

Evan Evans

Ah, but you see this is your "most wanted" list, it may not be everyone else's. Please remember that customers who do not write for a living have just as much right to ask for new instruments as you do. I can state for the record that I have no particular interest in Bb trumpet samples or an extended violin range, although if both of these were available i would probably buy them anyway. Now harmonics... [:)]

DG

[PolarBear]

Hey Evan, hurry up, the muted brass can be downloaded for free only a few days more! In case you didn't notice yet.

I will repeat myself here (look for the dozen other topics in the board history on this): I think more realism is achieved using twice as much articulations, instead of having just another timbre at choice, where this or that is not possible because those things were only recorded with the one or the other instruments choice. You will bring up the unison lines again, and I think there are enough articulations availible to come around the shortcomings of it. Read: Legato articulation plus regular ones perfectly fit each other if legato is needed. If legato has to be avoided there are (apart from sustains perhaps) enough choices you usually feed your alternation mode with to be used at once. If you can't find a way around you can add chamber strings violins to the regular ensmbles. If that's too small add the violas instead (perhaps pitch those up a step or two to match timbre if you going to nitpick about that, I'd rather nitpick about lack of vibrato expression). Put solo strings on top... Get your newly achieved prepanned Gold Edition to play alongside. Go down under looking for your dusted GOS box. Use other choices (notice I'm still talking about unison lines)... Endless discussion... I agree it might be harder to choose alternatives if the aim is to emulate a perfect string quartet or quintett (?). But for sections... (Didn't they say somewhere that the current violin section will be the second one once the symphonic cube will arise, or was that only with the flute?)

All the best,
PolarBear

[evan evans]

What's everyone all worked up about? It ain't my list at all. These are standards.

Evan Evans

[evan evans]

@Another User said:

Thanks a lot.
/Dietz

Are you being sarcastic? If you are I don't appreciate it. Can't you VSL guys contain your emotions? It is a business you know. This is maybe the hundredth time you've responded so horribly to users feedback. A simple, "thank you, we have considered and made note of your requests and at this time some of it is being taken into consideration. Schedule and budget dictate much of our affairs, but we hope to add some of your requests to our library at some point in the future." Is that so hard? is everyone in Vienna so defensive? How about dignity? Diplomacy? Aren't those great aspirations? Or is Pride just too darned hard to resist?

Evan Evans

[Nick Batzdorf]

FWIW, didn't Herb post a while back that they tried sampling second violins and found the difference in sound to be too subtle to be worth the effort? Given VSL's approach - same detailed list of articulations for every instrument, same room, etc. - it makes intuitive sense to me that this would be the case.

Also, Craig S. showed me a really effective technique: layering the Chamber Strings with the VL-14s, but fading the small section up and down to introduce vibrato. That might be your answer.

[mathis]

Oh, Evan. Just shut the f*** up, please. Soon we have lost you again.
Why do you always want to hear the answers YOU want to hear? This is NOT openness for god's sake! Or whatever whom's.

And, Dietz, trust your customers intelligence. One or two bad mouths won´t make the whole community doubt your efforts.

[Dietz]

@mathis said:

Oh, Evan. Just shut the f*** up, please. Soon we have lost you again.
Why do you always want to hear the answers YOU want to hear? This is NOT openness for god's sake! Or whatever whom's.

And, Dietz, trust your customers intelligence. One or two bad mouths won´t make the whole community doubt your efforts.

... I trust them _a lot_!

Everybody can express her/his doubts about our project, even here (especially here, actually), in our own forum. I just can't stand this ridiculous "one step forward, two steps back"-attitude that makes all our other custumers' postings appear in a dimwitted, foolish context.


/Dietz