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  3. EASTWEST Orchestra Platinum Group Buy

  • EASTWEST Orchestra Platinum Group Buy

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    Hello I am new here and recently purchased Opus 1. Now I have seen this amazing deal from Eastwest for their Orchestra Platinum Edition for $1198,00 in their group buy offer they have on their website and I decided to buy this one in addition to my fabulous Opus 1. It seems that all my dream come true and I can have the largest selection of orchestral sounds available. Does anyone have an additional recommendation? Since I saved so much money I consider investing some more [:D] Maybe the Saxophone? Anyone can recommend VSL Sax or should I wait for the Yellow Tools Candy instead? I have seen their demo in Frankfurt and I loved it!

    For those of you who are interested in the Platinum deal as well go have a look at their website, this is a bargain for everyone that is into composing as much as I am (the link: http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=EW-155G)


    Peace

    S
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    The VSL saxes are fairly usable....as these things go....with my main gripe about them being that their upper ranges are almost never as extended as the solos I try to emulate. I'm always about 4 notes shy of what's on a recording[;)]

    Sax is just one of those instruments that I doubt will ever really be totally convincing played as a sample. Unlike oboes and English horns, it just fights you from note one. That said, VSL did a nice job at a reasonable price, and I bought it and use it either to do mock ups on normal budget jobs, or for finals on low budget assignments where the real thing isn't possible.

    TH
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    I am not a polemist [6] , but I just would like to make some remarks. (the frenchie aristote is always excused for its bad English - thank you with the Mac translator -).

    I don’t like your topic because it’s not really elegant. For two reasons. First : here ou are on VSL forum. And second : imagine that you are one of the first purchasers of EW. Which would be your feeling, after having bought at the full price Platinum, you were in front of these group buy. Personnally I would not be happy ! [8o|]

    I just want to tell you something.

    1. If you are professional,would not be sure to make the best deal with EWQL. The quality of the demo is good but doesn’t show you the reality. For example, you never can hear correctly the strings (or some others instruments) alone…
    2. Maybe, you'll have "a" large selection of instrument with your solution, but certainly not "the" largest.
    3. Don't forget that the Platinum Edition doesn't contain all the ariculations you can find in VSL Pro ed.
    4. Don't forget that to play with more articulations, you have to wait the upgrade Pro by EW, that costs the same price than VSL Pro ED without the Performance Tool and the fabulous tools: ALTERNATION, REPETITION and LEGATO in VSL
    4. Don't forget that you can not compare the sound quality of sound beetween the Brass &WoodWinds EW and the fabulous Brass &WoodWinds VSL, specally epic horns.
    5. Don't forget that the engine Kompakt and Kontakt are not the best engine for this kind of Library. I'm working with Kontakt for all except the VSL collection and I know some users, who have quickly some problem you don’t have with EXS and its tools.

    It’s important that you compare what can be to compared.

    6. And finally, don’t forget this : on the VSL forum you can write about EWQL, but on the EWforum, if you have the smallest problem with their collection, with all their bugs, if you want to write about VSL, it’s absolutely impossible : you will be excluded. Here, if you have the smallest problem, they do all they can do to find for you a solution.

    the frenchie loves VSL is this clear [*-)]:
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    Ditto to the above. I also find it quite amazing that someone would post a topic like that in this forum. But nonetheless,
    I'd just like to add something (which has probably been mentioned in many previous discussions):

    7. Having heard the (short and preliminary) demo of the MIR system at Musikmesse, I am
    absolutely convinced that the EWQL approach of from recording multiple mic positions
    is not only wasteful - blowing up the size of the library by a large factor - and inflexible,
    but will also be unnecessary in the future. And even though MIR will be CPU-demanding,
    I doubt that one will need a farm of PCs to make some music, as is the case with Platinum.
    So, IMHO, the technology being developed by VSL at the moment has the potetntial to
    render the bloated EWQL-approach obsolete very quickly. Could that be the reason for that
    'amazing deal' ?

    Regards,
    Jens
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    they are devaluing their products very quickly. Even Gold is now half price. I think it's a fine library, and a fine company, but it's clearly in a different league than VSL. I don't think we should fear mentioning other company's products here, tho. It's nice that there are competitive products that take very different approaches, and I'd rather not have to wear a muzzle!
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    @metrobot said:

    they are devaluing their products very quickly. Even Gold is now half price. I think it's a fine library, and a fine company, but it's clearly in a different league than VSL. I don't think we should fear mentioning other company's products here, tho. It's nice that there are competitive products that take very different approaches, and I'd rather not have to wear a muzzle!


    I own both VSL Pro Edition and Gold. I certainly wouldn't say that Gold is in a "different league".....a horse of a different color perhaps, but not inferior. Certainly not as powerful overall because of the articulations, but the sound of the hall and some of the instruments in particular are pretty wonderful.

    I still couldn't get by without VSL however, principally because of the Performance Set.
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    i personally don't see a problem in mentioning other products for numerous reasons:

    1. this isn't a cult praising VSL as our god!!

    2. everyone on this forum knows how wonderful VSL is and i hardly see it a threat to the company. its nice to see some competition from a consumer stand point, so VSL doesn't have a monopoly over the whole industry, although from my experience they have proved to be no.#1

    3. not only is this a place to talk about VSL. but its a place to talk about film scoring/tv music/jingles or whatever the users here compose for, and to give us insight on the latest products and how to achieve the best sound etc.etc

    i'm sure any serious musician on these forums know of almost every sample library anyways, and its good for comparitive analysis aswell.

    so even though 90% of the topics here should be concerning vsl, i think it is benifical to most of us to see the 10% of topics concerning other issues to help us in different areas of musical creation.


    thats my $0.02
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    I don't quite understand the animosity towards Stefan as he has bought VSL Opus 1- meaning he's given this company his monies. And I don't think he's trying to start a flame war here. As other posters have mentioned, you have nothing to worry about. VSL is what it is. I find lots of merit in VSL samples that I don't in EWQLSO but by the same token, I find Gold good for other apps. Neither library is bad by any stretch of the imagination.

    That said, I do think it was a little tacky for Stefan to post a link to the Group Buy. That's just my take on it. But I have no doubt it wasn't meant as a bad thing.
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    Stefan, thanks for posting about the Eastwest Library, I am interested to hear what other companies are doing. Such information enables me to hypothesis about the future of sampling, and such information includes the deals and prices of other sampled collections. Perhaps I am an overly simple man but I like to imagine all the future possibilities of sample libraries - I mean... I like to do other stuff too.

    I have the VSL Saxes and I think they are excellent. What has been so nice about this collection is it has me thinking differently about sax. I'm sure this is just my personal take but I must say, after coming from a jazz background, and after playing with longwinded – excuse the pun – sax players and their longwinded solos, I forgot how wonderful the sax is as an orchestral instrument. I don’t own any of the YellowTools collections, nor have I heard any demos of their Saxes. However, I can say the VSL Legato Tool is a wonderful thing and it does great things to the soprano and tenor sax as a sampled instrument.

    All the best and keep being excited - Enthusiasm is no small thing, in fact it is probably the best of things, because it reinforces the importance of experience and experience alone.


    Jordan [:D]
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    There is nothing here malicious against stefan ! we all are very happy that stefan buys what he wants at low prices. We all love stefan!

    I especially underlined in my first topic that on this forum VSL, we can actually spoken about all. It is very well thus. That is not the case on forum EW. What damage today is that with this kind of method (group buy), the users are increasingly dissatisfied. Unfortunatly I was mistaken a little: today, there is much more of dissatisfied on their forum (about their proposition of group buy). They can not eclude everybody !

    These methods of marketing do not respect the purchasers. I hope that VSL will not employ this kind of method. When is arriving a new clothing or a new computer, they make a reduction for everyone on the old products. There are other ways of making trade that those employed by EW.

    I say it again here: "buy a product", it is also "buy the service" which is attached to this product. And on this subject, the comparaison between VSL and EW is (at this day) quickly made !
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    @aristote said:


    These methods of marketing do not respect the purchasers. I hope that VSL will not employ this kind of method. When is arriving a new clothing or a new computer, they make a reduction for everyone on the old products. There are other ways of making trade that those employed by EW.

    I say it again here: "buy a product", it is also "buy the service" which is attached to this product. And on this subject, the comparaison between VSL and EW is (at this day) quickly made !


    Yes, that's about right in my view. We talked about all this before when Gold was reduced.

    This is the problem as I see it. As a very rough example - you buy Plat for $2999 - then it's for sale at $1999 - how do you feel if you bought it for $2999?

    Now you can buy it for $1100 or so. How do you, as a consumer, feel, if you bought it for ÂŁ1999 -AND, how are you NOW feeling if you bought for $2999? Not everyone can use the 'standard' line - 'well, I got all that use out of it in the meantime'. [8-)]

    This is a strange message to send out to consumers to me. This has precluded me from buying any of these libraries to this point, apart from DFH.

    Great, if you're the consumer at the end of the line - currently $1100. The difference between $2999 and $1100 is a G5 Mac, just to put it into some kind of financial perspective.

    If that's the way a business is run and that's the company ethos, I certainly have no complaints personally, but it's bound to cause hard feelings in some quarters.
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    all i can say to that really is, that sucks. its the difference between buying a product when it hits the shelves and waiting some time for a price drop. now a $1000 price drop is quite extreme, so no doubt that would make original buyers mad. but thats how it is unfortunately, you never know what to expect and you just have to hope the purchase you made was a good one. I hope when i purchase VSL its the investment that will be able to last me decades. It sounds very convincing to me and i've been a musician for over 10 years. the kicker is always when that slightly better product comes out.
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    @muzik said:

    all i can say to that really is, that sucks. its the difference between buying a product when it hits the shelves and waiting some time for a price drop. now a $1000 price drop is quite extreme, so no doubt that would make original buyers mad. but thats how it is unfortunately, you never know what to expect and you just have to hope the purchase you made was a good one. I hope when i purchase VSL its the investment that will be able to last me decades. It sounds very convincing to me and i've been a musician for over 10 years. the kicker is always when that slightly better product comes out.


    Oh, I'm sure you're right. But it's not a $1000 price drop is it? It's a bit more than that from the original.

    But all this is purely academic, because some people don't care how much they pay for any product if they want it NOW. That is because generally, consumers make buying decisions heuristcally.

    And I agree that in this field of samples, as with any other commercial undertaking, it's good to have competition, which in turn drives forward R&D. If by massive reductions in pricing, any company can then go on to fund further developement, then that is their decision and ethos. That is an agressive approach to marketing and sales - nothing wrong with that.

    Therefore, loyal customers ACCEPT that there original purchase price allows a company to go forward to what is hopefully going to be newer and better products. [[;)]]

    The only thing I find difficult to understand is the word 'investment'. An investment to me, is something that will hopefully increase in value over time. A sample library is patently not an investment - you are hardly likely to see it increase in monetary value 10 years from now. No - your actual acquired skills and learning are the investment - not samples or computers. They are just tools.
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    @PaulR said:


    The only thing I find difficult to understand is the word 'investment'. An investment to me, is something that will hopefully increase in value over time. A sample library is patently not an investment - you are hardly likely to see it increase in monetary value 10 years from now. No - your actual acquired skills and learning are the investment - not samples or computers. They are just tools.


    I agree; bearing in mind the speed with which technology is increasing these days, the only investment one can make is in a company, by buying shares. You have to accept that most money spent on gear (or samples) has a limited shelf life.

    DG
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    thanks all of you for your comments and suggestions. I appreciate that there are many that see this as an additional opportunity to get a library that offers some greta sounds. I understand that there a re many that try to "defeat" VSL and see this as an attack. However, I am a musician and a user of many libraries. I am blesseed with these great opportunities that both companies (plus Toontrack Yellow Tools and other libraries that I own) offer me these amazing sounds to run my compositions. Wehn I look back 15 years ago and the poor equipment I had a t this time I can just say thank you.

    Regarding the sounds I have to disagree when it comes to pure and individual sounding. I know that the Vienna team has spend alomost tow years reacording all the artilculations and pieces of each incdividual instrument. However, everyone of you know that the sound that reaches the ears is the sound that is created by all the reflections that occur in a concert hall, on stage (while sitting in the audiance) and the reflections combined with delays and reverb. A violin (my ex girl friend is very good violin player) sounds so much different in an environement than having a mic stick to its body., Resonanzes are a big part of an orchestra sound and this is somethi9ng that I see much better realized within the EASTWEST library. I agree that VSL has more and precise artilcultions but I have heard form many professional firends I have trhoughout the world that it is complicated to realize that "live" sound that I hear when i watch/ listen to a concert . I have spend some time in Vages this year and I have seen the new show from Cirque de Soleil (KA) and I have talked to their technician. They uses the EASTWEST orchestra and it sounds amazing. They have 160 channles and use it pure as it was recorded and I doubt anyone her would hear the difference.

    As a resume I would say I am glad to won both products while they both approach a different usage and I will continue using more than one brand.

    So please all the people that see this as an attack step back and relax. I am not fighting against VSL, I love them and I will contine using them. I might look forward to the new convultion reverb that comes out next year ( soo far away...) and I also will cherck out the PRO edtion fgrom EASTWEST.

    I placed my order for the Platinuim Edition right now as it has hit the 60% discount and I am sure everyone of you has to admit that for $1198.00 it is a bargain, no question about it. It ads 65 GB of more orchestra sounds to my hard drive and it is worth it.

    Peace

    Stefan
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    @muzik said:

    all i can say to that really is, that sucks. its the difference between buying a product when it hits the shelves and waiting some time for a price drop. now a $1000 price drop is quite extreme, so no doubt that would make original buyers mad. but thats how it is unfortunately, you never know what to expect and you just have to hope the purchase you made was a good one. I hope when i purchase VSL its the investment that will be able to last me decades. It sounds very convincing to me and i've been a musician for over 10 years. the kicker is always when that slightly better product comes out.


    Oh, I'm sure you're right. But it's not a $1000 price drop is it? It's a bit more than that from the original.

    But all this is purely academic, because some people don't care how much they pay for any product if they want it NOW. That is because generally, consumers make buying decisions heuristcally.

    And I agree that in this field of samples, as with any other commercial undertaking, it's good to have competition, which in turn drives forward R&D. If by massive reductions in pricing, any company can then go on to fund further developement, then that is their decision and ethos. That is an agressive approach to marketing and sales - nothing wrong with that.

    Therefore, loyal customers ACCEPT that there original purchase price allows a company to go forward to what is hopefully going to be newer and better products. [[;)]]

    The only thing I find difficult to understand is the word 'investment'. An investment to me, is something that will hopefully increase in value over time. A sample library is patently not an investment - you are hardly likely to see it increase in monetary value 10 years from now. No - your actual acquired skills and learning are the investment - not samples or computers. They are just tools.

    I am sure that all of you are aware of the fact the EVERYTHING drops ion prices (other than Microsoft and Apple). If you buy a computer today, it is half the value tomorrow, if you buy a car......well no more I have to tell.

    I see pricing as something that has to come up. How do you guys believe that companies liek VSL or EASTWEST are able to finance their products? I know it costs millions to make them, it cost even more to compensate the lost of hacked versions used out there. (i know I am asales person and worked in a music store for many many years).

    However, I see 3000 a good price (if you compare it with renting an orchestra per day... or the prices for crappy Korg innovations that cost 5000 and sounds like libraries 10 years ago!!!) and I apprecuate that some companies offer after a while a discount on some of their itmes. it shows flexibility and supports people that do not have the money right away. I had spend 10.000 in crappy keayboards and other equipment every year just to get one type of sound. Now my overall costs have been reduced to a new computer every two years and some libraries. O

    Orchestra libraries in the quality of EASTWEST and VSL are ageless in my opinion....

    Peace

    Stefan
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    Usually I try to stay away from topics like this... but to my knowledge, VSL is recording their samples for quite some more than almost 2 years. I guess most of the opinions wouldn't have came up on your inital post if you included in your topic that your post was about VSL saxes - or was it Candy - instead of a flat statement that Doug Rogers himself couldn't put better. I'd not post "New Mercedes P-Class for clearance sale" in a BMW forum... But that wouldn't hinder me from comparing it there to a BMW Y4 either, so don't get me wrong! You are right that it is economical to drop prices, but until recently it hardly was the case at all (Look at all those audio and akai CDs, libraries like Miroslav, AO, and so on, all really "old" now), and now the substantial price loss of 60% is, well, I still call it clearance sales. Do you know which product will be reduced in price like that soon? Tell me, I want to save hard earned money for that, it will sure be worth it! I hope I didn't disturb your comparison...

    Apart from that, it's really hard to decide between the Opus1/2 bundle and QLSO Platinum... the prices almost equal and but the content doesn't. Now the choice seems more related to their substatintial differences - I hope for the people deciding that they will know what they'll more like.

    All the best.
    PolarBear
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    Hi!

    I have lurked NS and here for a bit (on and off). I own GPO, and have wanted to invest in another library to add flexability. I have GS3 Orch, and love the VSL stuff. I have not had a chance to demo the EWQL library (only the mp3's they have). And I got an email informing me of the group buy for platinum. *sigh*

    What PolarBear said is exactly what I am up against: If I was set to buy Opus1&2 (great price!), but now faced with this group buy for Plat, and only wanting to throw about $1-1.5k out initially, what to do?

    Owning GS3 with the VSL content (beautiful, and 24 bit), what would Opus 1&2 provide in addition to that content? Am I better suited starting with First Edition then? Maybe purchasee some Horizon series stuff (chamber strings, sax, etc) to augment? Or should I take a chance and go for the Plat group buy? Maybe consider dropping $2k plus with VSL? *bigger sigh*

    I write mostly prog rock/prog metal, but always wanted to "flesh out" classical/orchestral ideas I have had (used to use a couple Roland units- U220, 880, etc), and with technology today, it is possible to do so and have an "end result" that is really listenable. Plus, if I felt like incorporating orchestral parts in my writing prog rock stuff, or if I feel like pretending I am in Manheim Steamroller for a day or week [[:|]] (hehehehe...). Would be nice to be able to have a library that fits my needs (VSL really seems more suited for my expected uses), and one that allows me to grow without playing "money games." I have the free time to learn to use the VSL stuff, and on good days, the patience [:D]

    I sit here now trying to decide: Simply ignore the Plat group buy? After all: If I were looking at Ferraris, and a Lexus went on sale for an incredible price, would it matter? If I was craving that nice ripe Red Delicious apple, but green apples went on special (super terrific low price for one hour only!!!), should I grab the greens just because of the price/savings? *huge sigh*

    nikki [:D]
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    Nikki,

    I picked up the Gold Edition on a group buy - really silly price - but it wouldn't tempt me to upgrade it to Gold Pro, or go for the Platinum Edition. It's personal preference to a degree, but for me the fact that EW have recorded in a massive hall seriously detracts from the library's usefulness.

    The hall not only takes up a huge amount of disk space, but places a heavy burden on processing power (and RAM), and also it's just too BIG! The middle (stage mic) recordings are awash with reverb and there is nothing you can do about it, neither can you place instruments in a different 'location' - Example: I've just been asked to mock-up a Salvation Army band playing at a dockside as part of a documentary, but there's no way I can use this library for it! Not only that but you are paying for three sets of exactly the same instrument articulations, which with decent convolution reverbs around makes little economic sense.

    Don't get me wrong, it's not a BAD library, but it's limited in it's applications - I reckon you'll be left with an ugly mess if you decide to run the strings through some distortion for one of your rock epics! I also feel their attention to detail in programming, organisation and recording is no match for the VSL team, who's consistent, pristine recordings leave you in absolute control.

    I'll continue to save up for the VSL Symphonic Cube (which is just around the corner, right guys?) [:D]

    Colin
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    With EWQLSO it is my understanding that with little effort you can get that big hollywood sound out of the box.
    How easy is it to achieve that with VSL?
    If one is serious about doing compositions for film, what would you consider?