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  3. So is MIR just an Intel Altiverb with a different name?

  • So is MIR just an Intel Altiverb with a different name?

    L
    L
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    Just happened to see this post on the official Altiverb Forum from Aram at AudioEase...

    http://www.audioease.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=AV;action=display;num=1118187988">http://www.audioease.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=AV;action=display;num=1118187988

    @Another User said:

    For the upcoming MIR Project of Vienna Symphonic Library, Renier over here at Audio Ease has already ported Altiverb's heart over to the Intel Pentium processor. First results of performance are very encouraging. Shortly Renier will have a Mac-Intel develop machine at his hands to further explore possibilities.

    Compared to Altiverb, an Intel port of our other products is much less of a problem, so we are confident we will be ready for the intel Mac on the day the first commercial Intel Inside Mac ships.

    Note that this does not mean we are releasing a Windows versions of Altiverb.

    Aram


    In a way, it's nice, because AltiVerb 5 is an amazing piece of software. For my money, it's the best convolution verb currently on the market. I'm somewhat disappointed, though, because with all the build up about MIR over the past few years, I was expecting it to be more than just a port of something that's already on the market.

    Out of curiosity, is MIR going to be an Intel only piece of software?

    Lee Blaske
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    Thanks for your interest, Lee.

    As we proudly announced during the Musikmesse in Frankfurt, AudioEase is our development partner for the MIR as far as the convolution-core is concerned. Other partners are AKG or the Vienna Konzerthaus, for example, and even more names that will be announced later. I think we all agree that AudioEase is one of the most knowledgeable companies when it comes to sampling reverb, and they were as excited as we are to join this high-profile partnership.

    -> http://vsl.co.at/english/pages/profile/news/the_mir_project.htm

    That said, I think it is no secret any more that the MIR will be not "just another reverb", but a dedicated mixing frontend for orchestral music, tightly integrated with our sampled instruments. The intuitive concept as well as the amount of data involved will be very different from AltiVerb, and will result in a completly different product, and is by no means "a port" of anything existing already. (Just to give you an idea: During high resolution rendering, the MIR will process about 300 single convolutions of completely proprietary IR-collections.) Convolution is an important technical aspect of the MIR, but only one about quite a few others.

    The MIR will be a stand-alone engine, developed for PC-platforms only right now, for the sake of focussing our forces to the main tasks.

    I hope this sheds some light on the issue [:)]

    Kind regards,
    _____________

    /Dietz Tinhof - MIR Project Leader
    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • P
    P
    Please do me a favor and don't fall into the bad habit of mixing up Intel - Mac - Windows - OSX - AMD - PC [;)] Thanks.

    Hehe,
    PolarBear

    PS: I'm seeing a lot of "problems" reported soon regarding this once the new Macs are out... [6]
  • T
    T
    am i dreaming or the MIR is not supported by Apple?

    i have buy a opus 1,2 specially for exs 24
    What shall i do, buy a PC?

    and is the Mir will work with any sample or just for the vsl product ?
    if it is just for vsl , must we buy a sample collection specially done for Mir or all vsl product will be ok ?

    Best regards

    Thierry Ecuvillon
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    let me comment on this ... without getting *religious* regarding the old (and somehow childish) PC vs. MAC discussion ...

    a (long) while ago it seemed that a G5 would be neccessary to provide the performance needed for the MIR. the reason is not at last to be found in the design of PPC processors (you might remember several apple presentations glorifying the short processor pipeline in comparision to x86 processors - which of course _was_ true and such a design fits by definition better to audio). an uncomfortable detail was, that such machines are not the cheapest and a good G5 with more or less *nothing* inside (especially RAM) still starts at USD 3.000.- ... well, a heavy starting condition for a convolution engine (and clearly you'd have to get a dedicated machine for such a job)

    later considerations about GHz vs. lenght of pipeline took place as well as thoughts about additional DSPs or VGA cards to be used as *number crunchers* for the convolution engine and finally: the price and ability to cluster processor power.

    meanwhile it turned up, that apple is changing their hardware platform alsop to x86, where meanwhile new processor cores came out providing almost as short pipelines as the PPC and x86 multi-core processors (which IBM obviously could or would not provide for apple computers in the PPC world, although they produce them for their own servers and latliest also for the X-box ...)

    so currently it looks like a good decision to stay in the PC-world in a first run. imagine all the development had to be done again for a second platform - a severe waste of ressources for a tiny company like VSL ...

    finally it's only a question of *bang for the buck* - i for myself would take any platform if it fits the needs. if it has a yellow or a red ribbon ... who cares, it's all just 0 and 1

    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • H
    H
    Yeah.... But half of us USE macs with the VSL. Your cutting out half your potential market by just releasing MIR for PC. I want to use the bloddy thing!! And now your saying we have to go buy yet more stuff. Not to mention we who bought the VSL in EXS format, have to buy the VSL AGAIN! in giga format.

    This is a real kick in the shorts considering all of the very good things I have to say about the VSL. I would really like to use MIR. I fail to see why a mac version can't be made anyway. it not as if there aren't the people to but it.

    Okay, have a go at me.... If you can't see why I'd be frustrated at this news then what can I say.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    hetoreyn, your comment must be based on a misunderstanding ... i never said you need to buy a giga version of a VSL library, i just confirmed that MIR will run on a PC - this has nothing to do with your sampling engine, except you might want to feed MIR (like any other reverb) with the output ...
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • N
    N
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    @Another User said:

    (Just to give you an idea: During high resolution rendering, the MIR will process about 300 single convolutions of completely proprietary IR-collections.)


    300!

    You don't want that running on your Mac, hetoreyn, you want it on a separate machine so you can continue working.
  • J
    J
    last edited
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    @cm said:

    i never said you need to buy a giga version of a VSL library, i just confirmed that MIR will run on a PC - this has nothing to do with your sampling engine, except you might want to feed MIR (like any other reverb) with the output ...
    christian

    cm

    Could you possibly elucidate that point, please? I'm wanting to stay on Mac (if at all possible) yet can't think how to incorporate a Windows setup.

    Best wishes
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    last edited
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    well, it's maybe too early to pin something down in a way it might satisfy your curiosity (btw: lucidate is a beautiful word ..)
    our aim is to give you a *black box* with an intuitive user interface - although regarding the CI of VSL it might be blue [;)] - and you should not see too much of the underlying operating system.

    first reports say it is possible to run windows on the apple developer machines for osX86 and vice versa you can run osX86 on any modern PC (with a few tweaks ) - so in case you like, you could probably run it also on a mac. and of course you can wish to run [insert any mac-only application here] on a PC and vice versa, but you'll have to wait until it's ported to the respective platform.
    considering the recent (announced) changes in the apple world it might be clever to wait a few months until a decision is made ...

    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • P
    P
    Why not program an own OS for MIR [:D] [6]
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    this was a good one ... [:D] personally i'd preferre BSD (not so far from osX though), but its audio support is ... hmm ... not outstanding ...
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • D
    D
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    @hetoreyn said:

    Yeah.... But half of us USE macs with the VSL. Your cutting out half your potential market by just releasing MIR for PC.......

    I would really like to use MIR. I fail to see why a mac version can't be made anyway. it not as if there aren't the people to but it.


    I understand your pain, but luckily cm has now explained it.

    However, you are mistaken if you think that half the users are Mac based; I would think it's far less than this. Secondly, using your arguments Altiverb should have been available for PC years ago, but isn't (and it is starting to look like it will remain that way).

    FWIW I can only think of two reasons why I might want to use a Mac for an audio application; Logic and Altiverb, and the latter of these is the only part that I'm disappointed that I don't have available or PC.

    DG
  • N
    N
    DG, you're leaving out the main reasons: using a Mac automatically makes you a more adequate human being and improves your music.

    [6]
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
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    @hetoreyn said:

    Yeah.... But half of us USE macs with the VSL.

    Hi
    Sorry my dear hetoreyn I don't want to hit you more [[;)]] .
    But I've checked out my tutorial's visitor statistics.
    And that's what I got:

    http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/images/im53248296b3144d804.jpg">

    If you want to checkout the statistics yourself:
    Click on the Tutorial you want.
    > Go to the end of it.
    > Click on the counter's "STAT"
    > Click on "Platform statistics"

    Best
    Beat Kaufmann
    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • H
    H
    I'll do the honours and ask the simple questions as i'm big on writing music and books, and less enthusiastic about learning programming.

    Question 1.
    If i have MIR do I need Altiverb?

    Question 2.
    Even i understand that nowadays you can wire Macs and PC's together without too many hardships. Is it possible to run a sequencer on mac (Logic, unitl i get something better. I have Cubase for mac, but i can't use EXS24 inst with that), and run the Siganl out to MIR? Does this mean the end signal will have to come back to mac?

    Question 3.
    I've never used Giga, and given the comments on this forum, I'm , shall we say, cautious at even thinking about it. But, Apple are making me nervous with the multiple changes going on, and i'm not sure they're fully prepared for the processor bit, going on forum news i've read recently.
    Will MIR run within Cubase with 'giga' samples?

    Question 5.
    Beat is a man of my way of thinking, using facts not speculation to make his point. As many of you write for film, something i'm getting more interested in, what's the general percentages of use using PC over Mac?

    Question 6.
    CM, you called yourself a tiny company. Given the quality of the products, and a wise refusal to be drawn into pre releasing too much info about MIR before it's ready, can i then assume for the future, that a MIR for Mac is also on hold while you, like the rest of us, wait to see what Apple's going to do next?

    Question 7.
    I'm not particularly loyal to Mac or PC one way or the other, i'd just like something i can use without too much hassle that won't blue screen me into suicide before my allotted days on this planet of ours are up.
    Is it possible in the future that VSL will think about a dedicated notation/sequencer that is custom built to use those wonderful samples, and load all the goodies as well? (I refer to MIR and anything else you have up your sleeves.) And which platform will get the running first?

    Question 8.
    Referring to Giga (something i know nothing about), and as i said some of the comments here about memory, etc., is it possible when you release MIR, that you think about a manual for computer dummies like me, that explains how to bolt everything together? (Giga/Cubase/MIR/Performance Tool/Articulation Tool/Washing Machine/Hair Dryer etc.)

    Question 9.
    No doubt you're going to get a lot of questions from many, with childish emotional responses thrown in from the usual villains. I won't add the pile, so last question coming up.
    I've commented before about Sibelius's inability to keep up with latest developments, particularly getting a direct midi signal from notation to sequencer without using half a space station to make it happen.
    If anyone's using Sibelius (PC) and has a success with this, how easy was it, and what's involved? I've got some important decisions to make, and some info would be useful.

    My regards to you all,

    Alex.
  • T
    T
    so, i wanted to buy a g5 2,7 dual and now, i don't know what to do and my g4 400
    is not enought to opus 1,2 so, i wait to the next year and i can't work

    i feel good !
  • T
    T
    if what you mean is that whe can work on apple and must have a pc connected for Mir, please give to me a private message, then i will buy altiverb because i can't buy 2 computor and it is no use i wait the next year for working


    thank you for your request

    thierry ecuvilon
  • D
    D
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    @thierry.ecuvillon said:

    if what you mean is that whe can work on apple and must have a pc connected for Mir, please give to me a private message, then i will buy altiverb because i can't buy 2 computor and it is no use i wait the next year for working


    thank you for your request

    thierry ecuvilon


    I would get AltiVerb, not least because it has been stated that MIR is not likely to surface until next year anyway.

    I'm sure that it has also been stated that MIR is likely to be a standalone "box", so this PC vs Mac thing may well be irrelevant.

    DG
  • H
    H
    Okay, thanks all.

    I expected to get an earful from everyone... usually happens when I give my opinion.... but as you say I've misunderstood CM's earlier post, reading into it that only PC's would have MIR.

    I'm still hoping that MIR will be available for my mac, and certainly be usable in logic. I have a PC but I'm unsure about how I could use the MIR on that whilst interfacing that with the Mac. After all... I can only run the CSL in logic. I guess we'll have to wait until MIR comes out and see just how it works. I understand the serious amount of CPU cycles that it will take up, but if things can be done offline then it's not really an issue.

    Well again thanks for not blasting my ear off, and cheers for the clarification.

    Hetoreyn